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[FLTRI]

So are we getting closer to data supporting the real possibility WOT AFR can be targeted by using NBO2 voltage?

If that is the case the next question should what voltage to target.
We know more than 1 voltage offset exist so we need to establish what offset goes with what years/models.

A list of target voltages (cheat sheet), as reported by the tuning software, for the DIYers to use for their home-brew, closed course tunes.

Once that is established I don't believe it will be that hard for the DIYers to figure VE-to-voltage ratio after a bit of trial and error. It will take some time to get a great running bike but the alternative (simply extending from 80kpa) is less reliable especially as applied to high performance builds.

Maybe someone with a new Dyno will be willing to spend the time to do the testing to develop the aforementioned cheat sheet.

Bob

[mayor]

I went over to the shop today and did some more runs. 

here's the front afr for this data recording:


I had added a little more timing on this run, but the desired lambda had stayed the same as the previous runs:
https://www.box.com/s/p403juz6vjbxdyplu74j

0.899 lamdba was targeted (13.2 afr), but this came in closer to 13.1 afr with the heat, humidity and timing adjustments. 

since Bob mentioned the different years/models having different offsets- this bike is a 2012 DBW touring. 

[mayor]

I wanted to see what a leaner lambda value reported with the sensor mV, so I set the lambda table to 0.921 (13.52 afr).  The only problem was I forgot to tell the PE table the plan (set at 0.899 (13.2) after 4,500):


all data is front afr.

here's the data run:
https://www.box.com/s/5sevskkya8lef78uxk9e

[mayor]

in this sets of runs I adjusted the lambda and PE table to 0.929 (13.65). 

this data is only front afr.

here's the data recording:
https://www.box.com/s/vulw41vwzyx59gsm5eqf

at this point, I'm done wearing the rubber off of my tire on this bike.  I may try playing with my afr based DBW bike in the future, but I'm done with this one until I tune it with a set of 57 cams in it.

[Steve Cole]

I would add a little more VE to it below 2489 RPM. If you look at it, it shows a little lean PLUS it has AE fuel during those low RPM's. So if the AE was not there you would be leaner yet. The current 1720 -1740 below 2500 RPM with a 5.36mS shot of AE being decayed out. Get the numbers up to 1740 - 1760 in that area without the AE and it will be fine.

So can you now see the same trend in the stock sensors as the Broad Bands? While the numbers are not perfect in either case they are more than good enough for the task.

Edit: This is for the first set of runs but it holds true for them all.

[mayor]

yea, I noticed the rear was definitely lean in the earlier rpm areas based on the reported sensor voltage.  that pretty much showed that I didn't pull low enough rpm's when I was running the dyno on that cylinder.  I figured that I was missing some lower rpm's in the previous runs, so I went a little lower in todays batch of runs. 

[Buckeye_Tuning]

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/14592890/beigez-movie

[sadunbar]

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/14592890/beigez-movie

When you bought your dyno, did you get the exhaust fan option?  Just curious...   

[Buckeye_Tuning]

When you bought your dyno, did you get the exhaust fan option?  Just curious...   

From Dynojet, there is no exhaust fan option.  I DID get the two cooling fans option, with electric carriage and electric wheel clamp.  I have decent air flow for the bike and the dyno, right now, too.  That is until I enclose the dyno into its own dedicated room.  I have two 1/2hp carpet fans for the exhaust,  a 4ft fan to exhaust the room, a fan that points on the intake side of the bike that pulls fresh air, and the main make up fan that also pulls fresh air.  With everything running, right now, I think it is decent and has a really low CO2 profile into the TB.   The dyno is a Dynojet 250i.  Just installed a new brake controller for like $900, too.  Right now?  I have this all running on a gaming PC with two monitors, one monitor on the dyno, and the other at the work desk.  I split screen between the dyno program and whatever tuning program I am using, like TTS or Direct Link.  (those are the ONLY programs that I will presently work with, as I do NOT know enough to tune with a SEPST or a PV, yet... and do NOT wish to 'learn' on someones bike).   TTS works for me, because I have been using it since v1.01...  like early 2009, so I am comfortable and had done some street tuning with that for some folks.

Having a dyno, makes such a difference!!!  I am simply.... shocked... by the difference in the quality of the tune when done, as compared to street tuning.  Night and Day difference.  I posted that link because BVBob and I have been going back and forth about Steve Cole for years, and essentially?  It was BVBob that made me finally pull the trigger on this.  It's fun.  It's a passion of mine.  And...  if it is a TTS tune?  I LIKE using all of Steve Cole's tools to obtain a nice tune.  And... actually... some of the tools are used by me to check things out that most have not figured out.

Hate me?  Like me?  Either way is cool from my fellow members.  I'm in this to learn, and to get a few members bikes to ride very nicely.  NOT be "famous", or make a ton of money or none of that.  And... it is my philosophy to NEVER leave a customer unhappy.  We all make mistakes, me more than some, even.  But I use Teamviewer and an old shop PV to collect.. on the road... data if a customer complains about pinging, etc.  The MOST I ask of a customer is to have the ability to hook the TTS up to a bike and learn how to install a new map inside.  I store EVERYONE's MTE file on the TTS website, too.

So... sometimes it IS hard to breath.  Maybe I AM stuck up Steve's ass too much.  But... He makes the damn thing and Doc, Lonewolf, Hrdtail78 all tune the same way... as now I do, too.  It's all about different ways to get the same job done. 

[Buckeye_Tuning]

Nice!  Follows right along with the work you did.

[mayor]

good job!  I was going to ask whether Dave was the one you saw at Pocono.  Is he the only dyno tech there? 

[Buckeye_Tuning]

Thanks you. I was really surprised. But Dave made it more well mannered. There were simply areas I could not get and that is were a dyno shines. Also there is more control and repeatability with a Dyno.

This is what I am finding, too.  A dyno will get anything below 2k rpms so much better, and THAT will make a bike ride way better when done.  It is simply too hard to get 80 map at 1500 rpms on the street.

Still, all in all, that looks really nice for a V-Tune.  I am glad to see that Dave still tunes.

[FLTRI]

It is simply too hard to get 80 map at 1500 rpms on the street.

If one were to have the bike in say, fourth or fifth gear @ 1500, it would be very east to get to 80 kpa on the street, right?
Bob

[mayor]

If one were to have the bike in say, fourth or fifth gear @ 1500, it would be very east to get to 80 kpa on the street, right?

not necessarily.  I have used 5th and 6th to reach those areas, and I still had some issues without the help of hills.  The more tq your engine has, the harder it is to get to 80 kPa without excelerating right through that area too quickly. The other issue is the amount of throttle between 80 kPa and excess of 83 kPa is not a lot, so without a monitor...it's tough to get just the right amount of throttle.  Getting the below 1,500 rpm ranges at the heavier MAP ranges on the street is also quite a chore, even with a monitor.   

[FLTRI]

not necessarily.  I have used 5th and 6th to reach those areas, and I still had some issues without the help of hills.  The more tq your engine has, the harder it is to get to 80 kPa without excelerating right through that area too quickly. The other issue is the amount of throttle between 80 kPa and excess of 83 kPa is not a lot, so without a monitor...it's tough to get just the right amount of throttle.  Getting the below 1,500 rpm ranges at the heavier MAP ranges on the street is also quite a chore, even with a monitor.   

While I agree it may be more difficult to hold 80kpa with a big inch, high performance/low end torque builds, a mild built 88,96, or 103 should not be hard to get to 80 KPA in 5th and especially 6th.
 Sweeping through the lower rpms at high load/KPA should not be difficult in 5th/6th gear.
Just repeat the sweep until you have enough data.
Just my experience,
Bob