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[North Georgia Hawg]

Any idea when this will be available, and what we'll have to do to get this? Run TTS updater?

If you have the blue VCI, you will just need to run the updater.

I don't know when Steve is planning to have the Flight Recorder available. The Timing Assist may be available at the same time, or it may be later. Steve would have to answer that.

Ken

[60FLH]

Fuel Moto and Kuryakyn also have fine reputations and packages available with accompanying flash tuners/maps for your stock ECM.

As far as dyno tuning, it's not all about WOT. The "sweet spot" with a properly tuned engine can be from idle to WOT. A canned map is often good enough if that's the best you've had, but I think most could easily feel the difference in smoothness where they ride 99% of the time, if they tried both. The trick is finding a true tuning artist. There aren't many and it's real easy to get hosed.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Fuel Moto and Kuryakyn also have fine reputations and packages available with accompanying flash tuners/maps for your stock ECM.

As far as dyno tuning, it's not all about WOT. The "sweet spot" with a properly tuned engine can be from idle to WOT. A canned map is often good enough if that's the best you've had, but I think most could easily feel the difference in smoothness where they ride 99% of the time, if they tried both. The trick is finding a true tuning artist. There aren't many and it's real easy to get hosed.

No, it certainly isn't all about WOT. And the tuner needs to understand the tuning device they are using, and be competent with it.

My point was that with flash tuning devices such as the TTS, a dyno tune really isn't necessary for many riders. The TTS can gather all of the data you need while riding under real-world conditions... something you can't really do on a dyno... since the bike is in a fixed position in a fixed environment. And it can gather hours of this data with the upcoming Flight Recorder. And, TTS offers very high-quality base maps, developed in-house with great care, from which to begin the custom-tuning process.

I can't and won't comment on FuelMoto and Kury... but I do know know that the TTS maps are great places from which to start a custom tune. There are literally hundreds of software switches in the Delphi ECM, most of which are hidden from us for good reason... and TTS knows ALL of them intimately. All of this information is built into the TTS library maps.

Ken

[TinSpinner]

Fuel Moto and Kuryakyn also have fine reputations and packages available with accompanying flash tuners/maps for your stock ECM.

As far as dyno tuning, it's not all about WOT. The "sweet spot" with a properly tuned engine can be from idle to WOT. A canned map is often good enough if that's the best you've had, but I think most could easily feel the difference in smoothness where they ride 99% of the time, if they tried both. The trick is finding a true tuning artist. There aren't many and it's real easy to get hosed.

On my previous bike, '07 SEUC, I installed a Thundermax autotune module with their base map for my set-up. On the bike before that it had the SE tuner on it when I bought it. The Thundermax never performed as advertised, never optimized my tune, and I got very little assistance from them to make it right. The SE tuner seemed okay but in retrospect I know now that I didn't have an optimal tune on it, even though it had been on a dyno, as it had several flat spots right in the most needed rpm ranges. On my 13 I decided to go for what my research indicated as the best set-up and tune available for my needs. I installed the Fullsac DX pipes, 2" cores, TTS and had it dyno tuned by Doc Weaver at Doc's Performance Tuning in Minneola FL. He is a true tuning artist. Never have ridden a better running Harley than this one.

The way Doc explained the TTS and the way it works as compared to other ECM flash tuners like the SE Pro tuner was to imagine the ECM is a 10 story building. Most of the tuning modules only change what is on the top floor whereas the TTS reaches down into the 5th floor to effect changes to the way it reads, relays and records data. I don't understand all I know about how it works, don't really need to and I'm sure there are others on this forum that can explain it far better than me, but I can say that was the best money I have ever spent on performance improvements.

[North Georgia Hawg]

On my previous bike, '07 SEUC, I installed a Thundermax autotune module with their base map for my set-up. On the bike before that it had the SE tuner on it when I bought it. The Thundermax never performed as advertised, never optimized my tune, and I got very little assistance from them to make it right. The SE tuner seemed okay but in retrospect I know now that I didn't have an optimal tune on it, even though it had been on a dyno, as it had several flat spots right in the most needed rpm ranges. On my 13 I decided to go for what my research indicated as the best set-up and tune available for my needs. I installed the Fullsac DX pipes, 2" cores, TTS and had it dyno tuned by Doc Weaver at Doc's Performance Tuning in Minneola FL. He is a true tuning artist. Never have ridden a better running Harley than this one.

The way Doc explained the TTS and the way it works as compared to other ECM flash tuners like the SE Pro tuner was to imagine the ECM is a 10 story building. Most of the tuning modules only change what is on the top floor whereas the TTS reaches down into the 5th floor to effect changes to the way it reads, relays and records data. I don't understand all I know about how it works, don't really need to and I'm sure there are others on this forum that can explain it far better than me, but I can say that was the best money I have ever spent on performance improvements.

The Tmax is an outdated, Alpha-N product whose time has come and gone. Thera are good reasons Delphi went to kPa MAP from TPS calibration.

The way Doc explained the TTS is excellent, and quite true. Steve Cole and his TTS team have made many changes in the TTS calibrations to make things run better than the Harley cals. Remember, Steve designed the original SERT, and he knows as much about the Delphi ECM as anyone other than Delphi engineers themselves.

Most of the changes in the TTS cals are proprietary to TTS and are not even visible to us users - and for good reason. I do know that even the way the TTS controls EITMS mode is different from, and better then, the way the Harley's cals do it... and the list goes on...

With the TTS, you are starting from TTS cals that have all of these internal changes already built into them. And that's huge!

Ken

[Buckeye_Tuning]

Yep. All bikes should be properly tuned, but I think a full dyno tune is really only needed in order to squeeze out every last drop of performance at or near WOT... which most Touring riders don't REALLY need anyway. 

The blue TTS VCI does a fine job of collecting a lot more data now with the Flight Recorder... and all TTS users with the blue VCI will soon be able to collect HOURS of data in real world riding conditions, across on/off ignition cycles, very easily, without a laptop... and then apply that data to their tune easily using VTune

The upcoming new TTS Timing Assist function in VTune will also help spot where timing needs to be adjusted... or at least retarded to avoid pinging. The blue VCI already collects the data for this.

If I were going to drag race my bike, then I'd have it dyno tuned... but I'm not planning to ever do either of those things. Maybe if I'm ever at a rally where someone is doing cheap dyno pulls just so I can get a chart, then maybe I'd do that...  but only for the chart. 

Ken

HAHA!!!  Got ya!  I have a 120r, and I really DID v-tune the crap out of it.  I would have data runs an hour long (each), monitors on the bars, etc.  Most who rode it, thought it ran good.    Here....  once the tool showed up and I used it with my own bike.....  how the bike rode...  there really was quite a difference.  And none of that difference was about the power output.  More like I can now make the bike pull out from 1400rpms, in 6th...  and WHACK it... and it not have any drama.  Really does prove Steve Cole's statements about how all cells interact with all the other cells.  Data is king, but with the hit bar above the histogram, it's a piece of cake to get data in each cell throughout that cell, not in just one spot on the cell.  Things seem to just work together better...  gathering and playing at getting nice tight data helps.  There are NO such things as VE cells in the ECM... those are there for US, not the engine, to have a 'Human Man Interface).  VEs are just all math being played around constantly, while in operation in the ECM.  Just like skipping a cell when gathering data....  within each Cell on a Map based tune...   each cell has ten places where data can be hit.  So... say on the street all you get is green from all at 52 Map.  WHat happens at 59Map, when in the 60Map row, all you hit there is 67/68 Map?  That is why Steve put that tool in there.

I ain't lying, and I will lay low, now.

[North Georgia Hawg]

HAHA!!!  Got ya!  I have a 120r, and I really DID v-tune the crap out of it.  I would have data runs an hour long (each), monitors on the bars, etc.  Most who rode it, thought it ran good.    Here....  once the tool showed up and I used it with my own bike.....  how the bike rode...  there really was quite a difference.  And none of that difference was about the power output.  More like I can now make the bike pull out from 1400rpms, in 6th...  and WHACK it... and it not have any drama.  Really does prove Steve Cole's statements about how all cells interact with all the other cells.  Data is king, but with the hit bar above the histogram, it's a piece of cake to get data in each cell throughout that cell, not in just one spot on the cell.  Things seem to just work together better...  gathering and playing at getting nice tight data helps.  There are NO such things as VE cells in the ECM... those are there for US, not the engine, to have a 'Human Man Interface).  VEs are just all math being played around constantly, while in operation in the ECM.  Just like skipping a cell when gathering data....  within each Cell on a Map based tune...   each cell has ten places where data can be hit.  So... say on the street all you get is green from all at 52 Map.  WHat happens at 59Map, when in the 60Map row, all you hit there is 67/68 Map?  That is why Steve put that tool in there.

I ain't lying, and I will lay low, now.

And that's why you need to go out and just ride and ride and ride with the Flight Recorder grabbing all of the data. And it will capture TONS of data. As soon as the TTS 3 software comes out, there will be new functionality to use all of this captured data to VTune even better than than we can now!

Mr. Wizard had me run up some big hills while lugging the engine, to get the lower RPM/Higher kPa ranges captured well. This has really helped the lower RPM areas that my engine doesn't really like anyway with the SE 259e cams and Drago's 2-1 pipe.

I still kind of miss having the monitor to SEE the cells being captured... but it really won't be needed anymore. The Flight Recorder can capture a LOT more data much more quickly when it doesn't have to feed the data to a laptop at the same time. It probably captures data at more than twice the rate running all by itself. And on the CANBUS bikes the data capture is MUCH faster than on a J1850 bike.

Ken

[Dan_Lockwood]

I don't mean to over simiplify the OP's question, but I've had just two new CVO's and both with O2 sensors and I would like to share my experience with both.

The first was an '08 SERK and I did the V&H Ovals with a PCIII with their website's canned map.  I then did a dyno tune while in Sturgis that year and it did improve my mileage, but both setups would pop and backfire during decel, but still a lot better than the OEM setup.  The sound was great, but a bit loud on the V&H Ovals.

The second and current ride is an '09 SERG.  This is when Fullsac started to get big into the site and lots of customers with identical bikes were setup by Steve and he offered a great package to just bump things a bit.

I bought Fullsac's 2" baffles with his TTS Masterune and his dyno proven canned map, which he provided at no charge with the purchase of the Stage I kit.  I did my own thing with the CAT and welded back in the piece after I removed the CAT.  This was all done with the header pipe still installed on the bike.

I have to say that my SERG runs better than I could have imagined, based on my previous setup with a dyno tune.  The sound of the 2" baffles is loud on acel, but quiets down very nicely on cruise speed.  I get mileage in the mid to high 40's riding two up.  There is absolutely NO backfiring or popping on decel.

Another plus is that you get to have the sleeper look as everything visually on the bike looks stock, but runs great and sounds great.  The mufflers still have the EPA stamping so a quick visual cannot tell anything has been changed and the header pipe looks stock as well.

It was the BEST upgrade I've done and would do it all over again.

Fullsac has a great product and it took me just a long evening to get it all done.  The laptop down/up load of the new map is quite easy and there is no telltail moddule left on the bike to cause problems.  My PCIII let me down and I had to remove it to get back home one day.  They replaced it, but I still had the issue along the freeway that should not have happened.

So my simple solution was Fullsac.  Don't get me wrong, the V&H setup is kicker, sounds great and looks cool.  But for the money and effort, I don't need anything else on my bike to make it run "better"...

Good luck with your choice, because as others have said, it is your choice.  You are doing the right thing by asking for opinions and experiences on this site.  So I've given you my 2¢ and that's about all it's worth.      

[Buckeye_Tuning]

And that's why you need to go out and just ride and ride and ride with the Flight Recorder grabbing all of the data. And it will capture TONS of data. As soon as the TTS 3 software comes out, there will be new functionality to use all of this captured data to VTune even better than than we can now!

Mr. Wizard had me run up some big hills while lugging the engine, to get the lower RPM/Higher kPa ranges captured well. This has really helped the lower RPM areas that my engine doesn't really like anyway with the SE 259e cams and Drago's 2-1 pipe.

I still kind of miss having the monitor to SEE the cells being captured... but it really won't be needed anymore. The Flight Recorder can capture a LOT more data much more quickly when it doesn't have to feed the data to a laptop at the same time. It probably captures data at more than twice the rate running all by itself. And on the CANBUS bikes the data capture is MUCH faster than on a J1850 bike.

Ken

Here is the thing you miss.  There are no such things as VE cells in an ECM.  They have look up tables for timing, etc... but NOT for VEs.  On a speed density system, gathering all kinds of data is king.  That is a king PERIOD.  Since the only thing you have experienced is DIY tuning... you think it is good enough.  But... with a dyno, one can get almost all of the cells at 750 rpm on up.  Do THAT on the street one time.  Not only can a good dyno operator collect more data... in cells a DIYer can never get, but with the shared data... the ones both DIY and Dyno can get... a dyno can consistently gather better data, because it can gather data at ALL points.  DIY basically gets the cells green... bypassing all of that missed data.  On a dyno, we don't worry so much about getting the cells green... thats a given, what we can do is gather data from throughout each and every cell.  ANd this is going back to the fact there is no VE tables... its based upon each point of lambda... NOT each cell of ten points... since there is no cell.... get me?  You really need to see a dyno in action running v-tune and you are invited to stop by!  I have a 32" monitor running a split screen... I can watch the histogram very well.  That sliding bar none of you guys pay attention to above the cells, is VERY important...  I walk that line and NOT worry about the cells...  Thats how I tune anymore, ever since Steve gave us that line.  We have all been taught, by now, that each cells interconnects with each other cell, right?  So for any given cell, there are eight cells that touch the cell in question, right?  Well, in actuality it is each point of Lambda touches every other point of Lambda in 8 directions.  In conclusion, a better tune is had if one... say in the 50kpa region doesn't simply collect at 52Map, and instead gather sufficient data at 52, 54, 55, 57, 59 Map.  Walk that ability through all of the rpm ranges and the data is simply... better.

Better data, makes for a better tune as far as transitions, etc work.

You are speaking with no knowledge... like the folks from the Darkside Forum.  Stop... think...  if in YOUR job, if YOU could gather 50% more data... what would be a better result?  I started v-tuning in February 2009 on the street, I was the second guy I know to use a monitor on the street, etc.  I DO have the chops to talk the talk on DIY tuning.  Dyno IS better... and is the 'why' I ended up buying one.  Not just for 'NASCAR" either... simple going down the road.

[mayor]

I'll leave out the word dyno and just talk tune from now on.  Not every body is going to have the knowledge or equipment to do this., but having the equipment sure helps with knowledge and testing new programs.

I think there seems to be some confusion here on what are the benefits of dyno tuning. Maybe you should start a new thread and explain what is typically involved and what the goals in tuning, kind of like Doc’s old check list (which is very outdated IMO).  If you would start a thread, I would be willing to participate in the discussion, and I'm sure wurk would too, and maybe we could get a more modern check list that would educate the consumer and at least arm them with enough information to be able to determine who would be providing a good tuning service.   

The Tmax is an outdated, Alpha-N product whose time has come and gone. There are good reasons Delphi went to kPa MAP from TPS calibration.

careful with blanket statements like that, based on the newly released SEPST cals the newer wet heads VE tables are TPS divided.

You are speaking with no knowledge... like the folks from the Darkside Forum.  Stop... think...

I’m going to assume that you aren’t talking about HTT now.  I happen to think there are some pretty sharp fellows on that forum  , so it must be another you’re talking about.  You should really let it go, doesn't do anyone any good rehashing old wounds.

[Buckeye_Tuning]

Sure it does... it eases the souls of some of us.   

God!  I simply cant wait to go to the show in '14.  I am hopeful we can get some members from here..... among other things.  And... it would REALLY be interesting if Kathi is dead by then, too.  If that happens, the show could be a BLAST for me.  Meet CVO members and even run into a couple guys that maybe should NOT come if that happens.  PARTY down like I USED to do!!!!  Daddy ain't skeered.  My state... My city...  my rules.  HEHEHE

I think, first off, it will be fun to bring some of my Angel friends and have them meet a certain member here.  Then take some old 'friends' out for a drink. See how tough they really are, too.  HAHA!  I may be old, but I still 'got' it, when it comes to some stuff!

[North Georgia Hawg]

Here is the thing you miss.  There are no such things as VE cells in an ECM.  They have look up tables for timing, etc... but NOT for VEs.  On a speed density system, gathering all kinds of data is king.  That is a king PERIOD.  Since the only thing you have experienced is DIY tuning... you think it is good enough.  But... with a dyno, one can get almost all of the cells at 750 rpm on up.  Do THAT on the street one time.  Not only can a good dyno operator collect more data... in cells a DIYer can never get, but with the shared data... the ones both DIY and Dyno can get... a dyno can consistently gather better data, because it can gather data at ALL points.  DIY basically gets the cells green... bypassing all of that missed data.  On a dyno, we don't worry so much about getting the cells green... thats a given, what we can do is gather data from throughout each and every cell.  ANd this is going back to the fact there is no VE tables... its based upon each point of lambda... NOT each cell of ten points... since there is no cell.... get me?  You really need to see a dyno in action running v-tune and you are invited to stop by!  I have a 32" monitor running a split screen... I can watch the histogram very well.  That sliding bar none of you guys pay attention to above the cells, is VERY important...  I walk that line and NOT worry about the cells...  Thats how I tune anymore, ever since Steve gave us that line.  We have all been taught, by now, that each cells interconnects with each other cell, right?  So for any given cell, there are eight cells that touch the cell in question, right?  Well, in actuality it is each point of Lambda touches every other point of Lambda in 8 directions.  In conclusion, a better tune is had if one... say in the 50kpa region doesn't simply collect at 52Map, and instead gather sufficient data at 52, 54, 55, 57, 59 Map.  Walk that ability through all of the rpm ranges and the data is simply... better.

Better data, makes for a better tune as far as transitions, etc work.

You are speaking with no knowledge... like the folks from the Darkside Forum.  Stop... think...  if in YOUR job, if YOU could gather 50% more data... what would be a better result?  I started v-tuning in February 2009 on the street, I was the second guy I know to use a monitor on the street, etc.  I DO have the chops to talk the talk on DIY tuning.  Dyno IS better... and is the 'why' I ended up buying one.  Not just for 'NASCAR" either... simple going down the road.

I would like to get Steve Cole's take on this. My understanding is that, while doing data collection runs, the data is collected at the actual kPa and RPM, and is displayed on the histogram in the appropriate cell. Is this not true?

And, my understanding is that the Flight Recorder will be able to collect MUCH more data, for very long rides, across ignition on/off cycles... Rides durinq which there is a much higher probability of many more combinations of kPa and RPM being captured. As you said.. Data is King.

So, with the Flight Recorder, on long VTune runs, I would think that there should be much LESS of a discrepancy between what it collects and what you can collect on a dyno, than there may have been in the past. No?

I am really not very interested in 60 or 70 kPa at 750 or 1000 RPM, because my engine is never in those areas. Likewise for 20 kPa at 5200 RPM. I never ride in areas like that. So what difference does it make to have tons of data for those areas? Just asking...

Ken

[Buckeye_Tuning]

What can make a HUGE difference is in the 30-50 kpa ranges.  Anymore, I always tune the 750 range.  It;s work on some bikes with big cams, but it always pays off.  For DIY guys, I now tell them to lower idle to 800, and put the bike against a wall, with a monitor up... one CAN get a few cells by slipping the clutch.  Get that data and ten return the idle to normal.  Look at most DIY histograms...  lower the RPM more holes in the histogram.  THIS matters when we both ride around and find ourselves in 5th or 6th at 1500 rpms.  Whack it and pull the bike up... NO need to downshift.  Bike acts really nice at 1500 rpm all day long... when needed.  There really is no such thing as lugging if the tune is good.

Other end will be WOT stuff.  You like WOT, like the rest of us, once and awhile.  A problem comes in during the transition from closed loop to open loop, AND the Adaptive Fuel Values the bike learns.  The goal here... and the why some tuners use open loop tunes... is if the AFVs alter too much from not gathering the best data going, is the transition from open to close will have riding issues right at that spot... won't be smooth.

Ken; all I can say is this...   I hooked the bike up with a laptop that was powered by the bike.  I could gather unlimited data, as far as that went.  I did, too.  Hours long rides.  I had DOC do my WOT, too.  I felt the bike ran decently well.  That was until I put it on a wheel.  On a dyno, one can hold a histogram right at 40 kpa and walk back and forth in that cell to gather as much data as possible, etc.

The end result was my bike made no more power...  but boy did it ever ride way nicer.  WAY WAY nicer, in fact.  So...  I base my opinion upon my own results with this.  I know you really like DIY tuning...  I do too.  But to say dyno tuning gives nothing except for that last 5% is not correct, IMHO.  Its all about how the bike behaves in every day riding.  I bought the dyno, mostly, to experiment and play with.  So...  I have played with my own stuff for sure.  I wanted to find answers unfiltered from the Darkside.  Now I can.  ANd this is my first, very pertinent, observation.   And... last year, I would have been on your side of things, until I saw it with my own eyes.

[North Georgia Hawg]

What can make a HUGE difference is in the 30-50 kpa ranges.  Anymore, I always tune the 750 range.  It;s work on some bikes with big cams, but it always pays off.  For DIY guys, I now tell them to lower idle to 800, and put the bike against a wall, with a monitor up... one CAN get a few cells by slipping the clutch.  Get that data and ten return the idle to normal.  Look at most DIY histograms...  lower the RPM more holes in the histogram.  THIS matters when we both ride around and find ourselves in 5th or 6th at 1500 rpms.  Whack it and pull the bike up... NO need to downshift.  Bike acts really nice at 1500 rpm all day long... when needed.  There really is no such thing as lugging if the tune is good.

Other end will be WOT stuff.  You like WOT, like the rest of us, once and awhile.  A problem comes in during the transition from closed loop to open loop, AND the Adaptive Fuel Values the bike learns.  The goal here... and the why some tuners use open loop tunes... is if the AFVs alter too much from not gathering the best data going, is the transition from open to close will have riding issues right at that spot... won't be smooth.

Ken; all I can say is this...   I hooked the bike up with a laptop that was powered by the bike.  I could gather unlimited data, as far as that went.  I did, too.  Hours long rides.  I had DOC do my WOT, too.  I felt the bike ran decently well.  That was until I put it on a wheel.  On a dyno, one can hold a histogram right at 40 kpa and walk back and forth in that cell to gather as much data as possible, etc.

The end result was my bike made no more power...  but boy did it ever ride way nicer.  WAY WAY nicer, in fact.  So...  I base my opinion upon my own results with this.  I know you really like DIY tuning...  I do too.  But to say dyno tuning gives nothing except for that last 5% is not correct, IMHO.  Its all about how the bike behaves in every day riding.  I bought the dyno, mostly, to experiment and play with.  So...  I have played with my own stuff for sure.  I wanted to find answers unfiltered from the Darkside.  Now I can.  ANd this is my first, very pertinent, observation.   And... last year, I would have been on your side of things, until I saw it with my own eyes.

Interesting. I understand what you are saying. The message I get is that a dyno tune is only as good as the dyno operator takes the time and makes the effort to capture all of those kPa/RPM points.

However, I still think that with the Flight Recorder capturing WAY more data than ever before, and at much higher capture rates, the difference in the amount of total captured data by the FR vs on a dyno SHOULD be significantly smaller than it was before the Flight Recorder. Probably not as good, but much better.

Lately, Wiz had me lugging my bike up some really big hills, in 5th (and even 6th), from 1000 RPM going on up to about 2000, and moving the throttle slowly up and down... with the primary and tranny clattering away down low. So I think I have captured a great deal more data than I ever have before. Probably not as much as you can on the dyno. But, I will guarantee that with my cams and pipes, I will NEVER be riding at even 50 kPa at 1000 RPM, etc. I rev the engine to at least 1500 whenever I accelerate from a dead stop, and it's never much below 2000 at any point after that.

My SE 259E cams and big 2-1 pipe just don't make any power below 1500, and not that much under 2000. Long duration cams and a 2-1 pipe just aren't designed to operate in those low RPM ranges. So, I never ride in them. Could those low RPM ranges be better if I had it tuned on a dyno? Probably... but how much better? And at what effort, and cost, to me? I don't know.

I never rode in those low RPM ranges on my old Evo FLHTP with a V-Thunder cam and true duals, either. Maybe it's just my ingrained riding style from riding 4-up Kawi 900s for years back in the day... but I am not an engine lugger. I don't mind turning revs, and the bike is far more fun to ride when it's operating within its peak torque band. That's just how I ride.

Ken

[Buckeye_Tuning]

Interesting. I understand what you are saying. The message I get is that a dyno tune is only as good as the dyno operator takes the time and makes the effort to capture all of those kPa/RPM points. Ken

THIS is way more truthful than you can guess, Ken.  You and Wiz get better tunes than most shops out there, for sure.  Guy up the road tunes bikes.  He has a 200 dyno with no brake.  I have NO friggin clue how he can claim to 'tune' without a brake.