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[hrdtail78]

I guess it could be cumbersome for people who just don't understand some of these things and get confused easily. 

Please explain how you get a cal. from the computer to the bike's ECM?  You upload it into the vision, then upload it into the bike.  While uploading to vision.  It can't be plugged into the bike.  To me.  Not shooting straight from a computer into the ECM is cumbersome.  Not confused at all.

[joe_lyons50023]

Why can't it be plugged into the bike?  The bike just be on.  I just consider that time the same amount of time to save the calibration on a dongle/vci just that the order is different.  Instead of computer->ecm->dongle/vci it is computer->PV->ecm.

[Steve Cole]

Why can't it be plugged into the bike?  The bike just be on.  I just consider that time the same amount of time to save the calibration on a dongle/vci just that the order is different.  Instead of computer->ecm->dongle/vci it is computer->PV->ecm.

WIth any other device besides PV you can program straight from the PC into the bike. With a PV you have to first program the PV on the bike or off doesn't matter, then program from the PV to the bike. You must do the same two steps to save the stock program as well. Two steps are a must if you program changes from any of there software other than the PV itself. So start adding up all those steps and you begin to see the picture. As for saving the stock calibration TTS does it at the same time you program and it still takes less time than a PV doing the same task. The TTS can and does save the stock calibration to both the interface and PC, install the program to both the interface and bike ECM quicker and faster than the PV can do the same, fact not fiction! The PV is Different sure, takes longer than any other tuner on the market to program sure does, but yet you do not see a difference? How is that?

Competition is fine but the made up BS by some of the people other than DynoJet is way out there.

[North Georgia Hawg]

I would like someone to explain the need for the PV's ability to store 6 different calibrations that can be downloaded to the ECM. If you get the bike tuned well, then it's tuned well, with ONE calibration. There does not seem to be any need for storing multiple calibrations and downloading them to the ECM for "different" riding conditions. A good tune is a good tune, and you build it to make the engine run best. Once the VEs, EGR, Timing, etc. are dialed in, then that's it. You're done with the calibration.

When you flash in a calibration, the AFVs are cleared, and the ECM has to start all over building the AFVs to adapt in real-world riding conditions to the new calibration.

I just don't see why this is a desirable feature of the PV... But they sure market it as one...

Ken

[05Train]

WIth any other device besides PV you can program straight from the PC into the bike. With a PV you have to first program the PV on the bike or off doesn't matter, then program from the PV to the bike. You must do the same two steps to save the stock program as well. Two steps are a must if you program changes from any of there software other than the PV itself. So start adding up all those steps and you begin to see the picture. As for saving the stock calibration TTS does it at the same time you program and it still takes less time than a PV doing the same task. The TTS can and does save the stock calibration to both the interface and PC, install the program to both the interface and bike ECM quicker and faster than the PV can do the same, fact not fiction! The PV is Different sure, takes longer than any other tuner on the market to program sure does, but yet you do not see a difference? How is that?

Competition is fine but the made up BS by some of the people other than DynoJet is way out there.

That's a feature, not a bug.  I can sit on my comfy sofa in the air conditioning to load a calibration into the PV, stick the PV on the bike, then program from there.  The big difference is that if I decide to do a tuning run, I don't have to go back to the house to get the laptop, nor do I need to get the laptop out of the Tour Pak.  And I sure don't need to open a tune, change the Lambda table, shut off the PE mode, name and save that calibration, then load it into the bike.  I push a button on my bar-mounted touchscreen, and I'm tuning in 90 seconds.  When I'm done, I don't have to fetch the laptop out of the Tour Pak, close the program, open V-Tune, load calibrations to it and run it, save the new calibration, then start the process all over if I want to do another run.  I just hit a couple of buttons while I'm still sitting on the bike.  Done in about 90 seconds.

I would like someone to explain the need for the PV's ability to store 6 different calibrations that can be downloaded to the ECM. If you get the bike tuned well, then it's tuned well, with ONE calibration. There does not seem to be any need for storing multiple calibrations and downloading them to the ECM for "different" riding conditions. A good tune is a good tune, and you build it to make the engine run best. Once the VEs, EGR, Timing, etc. are dialed in, then that's it. You're done with the calibration.

When you flash in a calibration, the AFVs are cleared, and the ECM has to start all over building the AFVs to adapt in real-world riding conditions to the new calibration.

I just don't see why this is a desirable feature of the PV... But they sure market it as one...

With the PV, you have the option of not resetting the AFVs.

The six slots are nice if you plan on doing multiple tuning runs and don't want to lug a laptop around with you.  Also nice if you run multiple mufflers, or if you see big temperature swings.  That takes tuning to a level of anal-ness that I'm not interested in getting into, but there's certainly some benefit to that.

[BigLew55]

I would like someone to explain the need for the PV's ability to store 6 different calibrations that can be downloaded to the ECM. If you get the bike tuned well, then it's tuned well, with ONE calibration. There does not seem to be any need for storing multiple calibrations and downloading them to the ECM for "different" riding conditions. A good tune is a good tune, and you build it to make the engine run best. Once the VEs, EGR, Timing, etc. are dialed in, then that's it. You're done with the calibration.

When you flash in a calibration, the AFVs are cleared, and the ECM has to start all over building the AFVs to adapt in real-world riding conditions to the new calibration.

I just don't see why this is a desirable feature of the PV... But they sure market it as one...

Ken

While I don't store 6 tunes, I do have 3, and I can load them onto the bike anywhere, even BFE Idaho, if needed, and without a laptop.

I keep the stock tune, in case I have issues and return to the dealer and want to return it to stock config.  I don't need to hope the dealer is familiar with TTS.

I keep my normal tune, which is for premium fuel.

I also keep a low-octane tune, in case I fine a need for that.  

I really don't want to sqabble about what's better or not, but the PV fit my needs due to portability.  I take long trips, not just bar-hops.  I like to be self-sufficient, and I don't have room for a laptop.

To be honest, if the SEPST could calibrate the speedo, I would have bought that, even though I find the software quite cumbersome.  I would appriciate knowing I only have to push the "HD" button on my Garmin and they can handle it.  Some just don't know what to do wtih a TTSor PV, but the with the PV, at least I can re-load the stock cal.

Just my $.02, but it ain't worth half of that.

[mayor]

I would like someone to explain the need for the PV's ability to store 6 different calibrations that can be downloaded to the ECM. If you get the bike tuned well, then it's tuned well, with ONE calibration. There does not seem to be any need for storing multiple calibrations and downloading them to the ECM for "different" riding conditions. A good tune is a good tune, and you build it to make the engine run best.

while on the merit of your argument I tend to agree, but I will say that the 6 slots are nice for street tuning (ve mapping) without much delay and without a computer since you can start out with the cal that you are tuning with and allow for up to 5 "auto tune" corrections....and when you are done you can save those back on your computer to review. 

Another benefit of the multiple slots for calibrations is when you are testing timing.  The quick calibration change on the side of the road takes just a few minutes so run, test, repeat until you are happy. 

[hrdtail78]

Maybe before shouting that one tuning device is better than another. One should tune with them both or all. Then a good decision can be made.

I see no need for multiple maps for the same bike.

To clarify. I was saying that the vision is cumbersome for a professional tuner with a dyno.  It's not a bad tool for someone that wants to map their own VE's and piddle around.

FWIW.  I get calls setting up dyno appointments. Sometimes the customer already has a tuning device., and they want to have it tuned with it. No problem, but trust me. There aren't to many tuners out there that get excited about dealing with the vision.  Especially if they have invested anything into monitors or even TV's.

[joe_lyons50023]

What does tts do for customers that live in Denver or other high altitudes for their map readings?  Don't they lose or few rows of tuning?  If the most cumbersome thing is the order of how you put a map into the bike then wow you guys are reaching.  When I choose, I choose the tuner that allows me to do more.

[mayor]

on my personal EFI bikes I use Mastertune.  I like that system, and from what I've seen of Fullsac's reputution and how they handle their business I would think that is a very good option.   It seems that guys that use his products are very happy.  I would also say the same for Jamie at Fuel Moto though.  I've personally met Jamie, and I think he's a stand up guy.  I also have a little experience on the PV, and can say that in a short period of time they have made drastic improvements in that system.  When I first used the PV system last year I hated it.  It was very cumbersome, and didn't seem very thought out compared to the system I was used too (TTS).  Since then, Dyno Jet has listened to their customers and made some improvements that really does make the system easier to use.  I expect the next roll out of the software will improve the system even more.  I still personally prefer the Mastertune system, but I don't see any reason to suggest that the PV product isn't a good product that works as advertised.  In the end a system supplied by Fullsac or a system suppied by Fuel Moto will both work, since both of these companies have built a reputation on providing goods and services that work.   

[joe_lyons50023]

Maybe before shouting that one tuning device is better than another. One should tune with them both or all. Then a good decision can be made.

I see no need for multiple maps for the same bike.

To clarify. I was saying that the vision is cumbersome for a professional tuner with a dyno.  It's not a bad tool for someone that wants to map their own VE's and piddle around.

FWIW.  I get calls setting up dyno appointments. Sometimes the customer already has a tuning device., and they want to have it tuned with it. No problem, but trust me. There aren't to many tuners out there that get excited about dealing with the vision.  Especially if they have invested anything into monitors or even TV's.

The multiple maps is more for the customer than the tuner.  Different parts of the country and gas quality.

[Steve Cole]

That's a feature, not a bug.  I can sit on my comfy sofa in the air conditioning to load a calibration into the PV, stick the PV on the bike, then program from there.  The big difference is that if I decide to do a tuning run, I don't have to go back to the house to get the laptop, nor do I need to get the laptop out of the Tour Pak.  And I sure don't need to open a tune, change the Lambda table, shut off the PE mode, name and save that calibration, then load it into the bike.  I push a button on my bar-mounted touchscreen, and I'm tuning in 90 seconds.  When I'm done, I don't have to fetch the laptop out of the Tour Pak, close the program, open V-Tune, load calibrations to it and run it, save the new calibration, then start the process all over if I want to do another run.  I just hit a couple of buttons while I'm still sitting on the bike.  Done in about 90 seconds.

You call it what you like but the truth is simple for a dyno tuner that is setup he has to do more steps and takes more time than a TTS, SESPT or DL. He cannot use a normal size screen to work with as it's not allowed. When he wants to process data he need to hook up to the PV save it to his PC then open the software on the PC and use it. That's very similar to SESPT, TTSor DL but the extra steps of hooking up and getting it out of the PV and the reverse to put it back in along with using normal size screens cannot be done. With the others he can see the data real time on a normal screen or any screen he chooses. As for the laptop being carried around that issue is about to end for TTS with the release of the Flight Recorder that been out in Beta test for the past few months.  So if your a DIY guy out on the road the small screen of the PV can be of some help but lets remember the screen is smaller than a normal cell phone and no matter how hard you try your not going to be able to see much without scrolling around. Then for those of you with the PV mounted to the bike what happens when you caught out in the rain? Dynojet in there very own instructions tell you to remove it when you wash your bike! The unit is NOT water proof. The company that designed and built the unit (Drew Technologies) made them for the interior of a car for the automotive market.

The PV works plain and simple but the other stuff is just marketing hype, as it still to this day, cannot do what the TTS and other units do and those are the cold hard facts.


With the PV, you have the option of not resetting the AFVs.

Very true by why would you not want to? If you making a tuning correction/change all of those stored values are now wrong!  Also do not think that the PV puts the stock tune back into your bike just as it was stock. Any HD dealership can see that you had a tune in the bike with a PV as they are today.

The six slots are nice if you plan on doing multiple tuning runs and don't want to lug a laptop around with you.  Also nice if you run multiple mufflers, or if you see big temperature swings.  That takes tuning to a level of anal-ness that I'm not interested in getting into, but there's certainly some benefit to that.

As for 6 slots you have to use those to do auto tuning from my understanding and if you make more than 5 changes then your right back to using the PC again, that is provided you have all 5 other slots empty at the time. If you do not do it this way you begin looseing data that you cannot get back. So when your out on the road and your PV is mount to the handle bars that already as supplied from HD vibrate and it starts raining you had better pull over remove the PV and then lug it around with you. While that sounds stupid, the point is simple and that is, it was not designed to be used out in the weather. That is just why Dynojet tells you to remove it for washing the bike. So all the BS about lugging a laptop around is really no different than lugging a PV around. With today's windows based note pads 7 - 10" in size that are around $300 you end up with a nice notepad that can be used for tuning as well, and it's something you can really see!

Joe

If you tuned it right to start with going to Denver or Death Valley makes no difference the bikes run great. Since Death Valley is in our back yard so to speak we go there all the time when testing new ideas and product features. That's what all those correction tables are for in the TTS software that PV currently doesn't have, but I'm sure they will add them once they figure it out. There is absolutely no need for multiple tunes if you do it right to start with.

There will always be a benefit to someone for something, just as there is an ass for every seat. Speaking only for myself I would not want to chase around trying to make a seat for every ass! I would rather be out riding on a nice day with a properly tuned bike that only requires one tune as it was done right to start with. My personal bike is a 2011 RG 103, runs 87 octane fuel makes 75hp and gets near 50 mpg most of the time........... all on one tune!

[SBB]

In the end a system supplied by Fullsac or a system suppied by Fuel Moto will both work, since both of these companies have built a reputation on providing goods and services that work.   

So if the thought process is that both systems work well then what pushes someone to use one product over the other?
For me there are two answers.
1) My tuner, the tuners I have used in the past and Fullsac prefers the TTS Mastertune. I'd rather spend my time riding than playing tuner tester.
2) Steve George is an active member of this site and is very much available to any and all of our members.


 


SBB

[mayor]

To clarify. I was saying that the vision is cumbersome for a professional tuner with a dyno.  It's not a bad tool for someone that wants to map their own VE's and piddle around.

There aren't to many tuners out there that get excited about dealing with the vision.  Especially if they have invested anything into monitors or even TV's.

this is my opinion on the Power Vision at this time. I like the system on a pure amateur tuning level.  I think that they designed it around a DIY type of target market.  It works for that, that's hard to dispute.  I think where that system is weak is in the dyno tuning arena.  Besides the obvious large computer monitor vs small handlebar mounted screen difference, the one area that I have to give credit to Steve and Co on the Mastertune system is when he developed the tools to give a guideline on how use some of the tables (EGR, Cam timing).  Yes you can adjust intake charge delusion on the PV, but the process isn't clearly defined like in the EGR set up of the Vtune program.  I also like the Datamaster recording feature much better than Power Vision Log Tuner.  

I'm actually looking forward to the new software roll out of both systems.  I think both systems take on a slightly different approach, and I can appreciate both systems when I use them.  I hope that the PV will eventually make the system function better with dyno tuning, but I'm also looking forward to the on board recording function of the HD06 when that is released to the public.  

[05Train]

You call it what you like but the truth is simple for a dyno tuner that is setup he has to do more steps and takes more time than a TTS, SESPT or DL. He cannot use a normal size screen to work with as it's not allowed. When he wants to process data he need to hook up to the PV save it to his PC then open the software on the PC and use it. That's very similar to SESPT, TTSor DL but the extra steps of hooking up and getting it out of the PV and the reverse to put it back in along with using normal size screens cannot be done. With the others he can see the data real time on a normal screen or any screen he chooses. As for the laptop being carried around that issue is about to end for TTS with the release of the Flight Recorder that been out in Beta test for the past few months.  So if your a DIY guy out on the road the small screen of the PV can be of some help but lets remember the screen is smaller than a normal cell phone and no matter how hard you try your not going to be able to see much without scrolling around. Then for those of you with the PV mounted to the bike what happens when you caught out in the rain? Dynojet in there very own instructions tell you to remove it when you wash your bike! The unit is NOT water proof. The company that designed and built the unit (Drew Technologies) made them for the interior of a car for the automotive market.

Well it's a good thing I'm not a dyno tuner, isn't it?  The majority of PVs are going to DIY guys who have no problem hooking their PV up to their laptop with the supplied USB cable so they can use the WinPV software. 

This may come as a surprise, but it's really not a big deal to pop the unit into a jacket pocket or saddlebag if it starts to rain. 

Very true by why would you not want to? If you making a tuning correction/change all of those stored values are now wrong!

Well, off the top of my head, if you're doing nothing but a speedometer calibration, you wouldn't want to reset the AFVs.

Also do not think that the PV puts the stock tune back into your bike just as it was stock. Any HD dealership can see that you had a tune in the bike with a PV as they are today.

Not sure where you got that information, but you're incorrect.