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[bigskyroadglide]

Left out Friday morning for Daytona.  Great ride down, no worries, rode all the way down, ride got warmer farther south i went. Spent three great days riding around Florida and seeing the sites around Daytona.  First time i have been back to this rally since 2005.  Left out Tuesday morning, in brilliant sunshine, lite easy breeze.  Filled up the tank set the cruise for a leisurely ride back on the Freeway, until, i got out of Florida. Stopped for gas approx 200 miles later 95 N to Jville, 10 West to Tallahassee.  Everything ok.  Bike running good.  Had something to drink and a snack.  Back on the bike, cruising along. Stopped at rest area for a nature break about 30 to 40 miles from Tallahassee, bike had a loud tick, i thought maybe it was starting to warm up a bit.  Cut it off, went to use facilities, came back started bike and tick was very pronounced.  Listened for a minute, no miss, good oil pressure (10 PSI for a warm stock 110) at idle.

got back on freeway, riding toward Tallahassee, bike starting to get warm, seat starting to get warm, R leg, starting to get real warm.  Oil Pressure 32 PSI.

Get into Tallahassee, bike is getting uncomfortably hot, noise getting very loud.  Saw sign for Harley dealer Tallahassee Harley-Davidson. Took exit, pulled in cut bike off, very loud tick.  Talked with service pulled bike in to service.  1 hour later.  Diagnosis....

Lifter grenades, metal in cam chest, cams scored, cam plate scored, crank scored, case busted in lifter galley, oil pump scored, metal in oil, oil pan, oil cooler, and i am guessing it probably ruined the cylinders as well.  They did not take the heads off, bike was running under its own power when i pulled into the dealer and was running (although not perfect) at speed on the freeway.  Never lost oil pressure....

So ESP sent a inspector out (very quickly too) and i am waiting after an overnight stay and a 600 mile rental car trip home to hear about my bike.

Engine had approximately 18.5K on it and has been routinely serviced by Harley.  Had Syn 3 in it for all engine oil services, was not hot rodded, and was my long distance touring bike, set up with lowers and a tour pack.  I had the bike into the dealer at approx 17K and with about a month left on the original warranty before ESP kicked in, asking them to determine the ticking noise i was hearing upon startup as i suspected the lifters were going bad. I was told in writing to "ride the bike" they could not duplicate the noise.

So, for those of you with 110's, check your lifters. 

I now get to see what ESP is going to do, rebuild, replace or what?

What would you guys prefer, repair, or replace... I ride 25 to 30K a year.  Approx 15 on this bike.  the rest on another.

Bike is a 2012 RG Skunk Model

[redbeard719]

Jeez....This is the worst case nightmare I was concerned about with my 110".  I'm really sorry to hear that you had the trouble you did, but at least you were able to enjoy Daytona before it happened.

Since you asked, I would really push for a replacement engine.  With metal shavings throughout the entire engine, I wouldn't be happy with it being fixed/repaired.  Also, I would dump the stock lifters before the new engine was installed.

After seeing so many of these threads with grenading 110" engines/lifters/cam bearings, I consider myself lucky.  I had 30,780 miles on my 2010 before I pulled the engine apart to remove the stock lifters.  No scoring on the rollers or the cams, but who knows how much longer I had before the needles in the lifters gave out, or the cam bearings gave out either.

Good luck; please keep us posted.

[bigskyroadglide]

Thanks redbeard, still waiting for ESP to decide.  Dealership said when i was there yesterday, they had almost same problem on a 2010 CVO Ultra.  ESP re-manned the engine, split the cases and installed new crank along with everything else except heads and TB.

Who knows the outcome.  Will keep the forum updated as the story continues.

[RoadMonkey]

please keep us updated. I hate to hear this. I too am glad it happened AFTER your Daytona visit. I got back Tuesday night from Daytona. I had some ticking noise at low speeds, but it was running good on the highway. This is my 1st 110, I really have no idea what is "normal".

[Mount'nman]

My 2014 CVO Breakout had so much lifter noise I did not wait to replace the entire valve train with S&S cams, lifters, push rods and roller rockers.  Now not even noise on cold start.

[grc]

If it were mine and I had brought this to the attention of the dealer while still covered by the factory warranty, I would contact H-D and ask them to cover it under the factory warranty and to replace the engine, not have a dealership do a half azzed rebuild on an engine that grenaded parts and spread metal throughout the engine.  Some dealerships might do an acceptable rebuild, but with no real guarantee the dealer that has your bike is one of the good ones I'd be leery.

Harley knows damned well that the 110's have a major lifter failure problem (why do you suppose they spent the money to upgrade the lifters for 2013?), since they've had plenty of failures under warranty as well as all the failures the ESP has been paying for.  If they cared even a little bit about their customers they would just step up and handle this.

Jerry

[willyB]

I'm feeling very happy now with deciding to add cams and NEW lifters to my 2011. Should have it back this week.

Sorry to hear about your issue!

[bigskyroadglide]

GRC,

thanks for the reply, First i need to understand what ESP is going to recommend, then i have to decide whether or not i like the recommendation.  I agree with you for about $300 bucks(not counting labor), Under warranty, replacing the lifters would have been HD's best option. However, i can see where they have no desire to handle something that way.  The risk of failure has now been transferred to the ESP company, which is CNA and they, not HD have to bear the loss.

In addition, i think a new engine would be best, however i am certain it would be a re-man, whether put together at the dealership or by HD in their re-man facility.  Frankly, i would prefer to have the dealership do it, as once it went to HD's re-man program, its all black box and no one has a real insight into what was or was not fixed.  At least at the dealership, you can talk with the tech that did the re-build.

As to the dealer, it's at a Gary Bang dealership.  They have been around a long time (1911) in one form or another, own 5 dealerships in FL. and I have a couple of relationships that are friend of a friend type that i could get to the owner if i experienced any problems.  Therefore i think they will do a good job.  I'm very willing to give them a chance to do the work, if that is what ESP decides.

[sadunbar]

From your description, your motor suffered damage to the cases, crank, lifters and entire cam chest including oil pump.  Rest assured the bottom of your pistons are destroyed, your connecting rods are nicked and your cylinders are scored.  So even if they decide to replace your motor with a remanufactured one, it will be mostly new parts...  That said, I would press hard for a entirely new motor...

Sorry for your experience...  Unfortunately another example of why it's necessary for a yearly cam chest inspection, and to replace lifters every 10K at a minimum...

[TorqueInc]

  I would not let a dealership repair an engine ....period

   Replace with new....brand new engine

[CVO2FIXUP]

 With all that metal debris floating around in all the oil passage ways,  make sure they thoroughly flush, or replace the oil cooler. That thig is probably full of contaminated oil. Maybe pay a few extra bucks and get them to put in a 120R

[T-Roy]

I cuurently have 8000 miles on my bike which is a 2013 CVO Road King. Since it is a 2013 with the so called upgraded lifters I wonder how worried or not worried I should be? I am planning on a trip to Sturgis next year which should be in excess of a 4000 mile trip. I just wonder if I should do cams and lifters before then? Does anyone have any idea or data that supports the 2013 lifters being any better or not???

[sadunbar]

I cuurently have 8000 miles on my bike which is a 2013 CVO Road King. Since it is a 2013 with the so called upgraded lifters I wonder how worried or not worried I should be? I am planning on a trip to Sturgis next year which should be in excess of a 4000 mile trip. I just wonder if I should do cams and lifters before then? Does anyone have any idea or data that supports the 2013 lifters being any better or not???

Until I saw relatively conclusive evidence otherwise, I would continue to change lifters on a regular schedule. In my opinion, while it's been encouraging, it's too soon to say if the latest lifters have reduced the concern of catastrophic lifter failure. 

[grc]

I cuurently have 8000 miles on my bike which is a 2013 CVO Road King. Since it is a 2013 with the so called upgraded lifters I wonder how worried or not worried I should be? I am planning on a trip to Sturgis next year which should be in excess of a 4000 mile trip. I just wonder if I should do cams and lifters before then? Does anyone have any idea or data that supports the 2013 lifters being any better or not???

I assume your 2013 will still be covered by the two year factory warranty at least until after your trip.  I'd be inclined to hold off on a modification like cams that will definitely void your warranty and if the lifters fail the MoCo can buy you a new engine.  Once the factory warranty is gone, then change what you want.

As for evidence about the 2013 lifters being more reliable, all I can say is I haven't seen any reports of failures so far.  Since most 2013 bikes don't have a lot of miles yet, that really isn't what I'd call proof of anything.

Jerry

[Bike30]

From the current HD SE catalog for higher lift cams and springs:

"We recommend installation of Screamin’ Eagle Twin Cam Lifters
P/N 18572-13 in high lift cam scenarios in combination with high
pressure valve spring applications. We also recommend that lifters
in these applications be replaced every 7500 miles."

That P/N is the current lifter installed in 110 CVO's as far as I can tell. So, how about doubling the mileage for normal ops...12-15K? It's not a big deal to R&R (or at least inspect for wear) the lifters and cam face from above, and reinstall with adjustable pushrods without removing the heads.

Maybe better yet, install S&S or Gaterman lifters if in doubt about the HD products. Lots of opinion regarding current HD lifter quality...do a search.

The first time I hear one going wonky out it'll come. Plus the 255 cams are noisy by design to begin with in my experience, so best to keep track of any change in sounds.