Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All

Author Topic: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question  (Read 33727 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Zee110

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 410
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2014, 12:21:13 AM »

Depending on your altitude, available fuel, whether or not you intend to take the bike to different altitudes and your dyno tuners ability, Id say shoot for about 190 CCP or so and get the quench right and you shouldn't have any problems if the tune is right. Contact John Sachs here on this forum. Hes got a real good handle on the S&S heads that come on these motors. He can do some work to the heads to make excellent power without crossing the line on compression.

How does one acquire 190 ccp assuming this is cold cranking pressure with easy start cams?
Logged

BigLew

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2798
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2014, 09:14:56 AM »

Now that's a really good question and I'm waiting on a really good answer. That's one of the answers that I need.But I'm the odd man out. I'm running the 124 HC with a procharger. Bike shows its running a lot of boost but is bleeding a lotof the boost off because of the cam profile. So I'm looking for a better cam choice. I've run the 662-2 and although its a great top end cam doesnt make a lot of mid range TQ. So I'm looking at more mid range and set the rev limiter at 6200. Not interested pushing another cam cover off.

BigLew
Logged

INDEPENDENT_1

  • Superior Performance
  • Vendor
  • Senior CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 380
  • independentmcshop.com
    • independentmcshop.com
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2014, 10:39:55 AM »

Same as any other build. I believe the S&S motors come with 40 HG's. You can run a 30 there and mill the heads. I've not had a set of these worked heads in my hands yet so I can't say of sinking the valves is required or not. I believe in stock from the heads run at 91cc chambers and with the higher lift cams used with these heads, some geometry correction/valve stem protrusion may need to be addressed as well. Again, on these particular heads especially, I'd call John Sachs. He knows these heads well and for the guy running the boost, I would not go crazy with the CCP or compression since you are running the boost. I would confirm with Sachs but I'm sure he's going to tell you to at least go with a 2.02 intake, possibly larger and maybe larger intake valve or if you don't mind spending the money, a set if worked B2's may be the hot setup for you. If Sachs isn't who you'd like to use, Dorfman at HD Street Performance or the Lazanno brothers would probably be on my short list as well. If the compression you want can't be achieved with the HG and shaved heads, next option is pistons or possibly oversize bore and pistons. I know S&S has recently released some new kits that contain CP pistons. I use both Wiseco and CP just depending on the build. I just finished up a 106 build that started life as a SE 103 with the hemi chambers. Sachs did the heads and suggested the Wiseco's so that's what I used. When wise men speak (Sachs in this case) men who hope to eventually be wise, listen. I actually like some of the main features of the CP's better (ie skirts, rings, and ring lands) but Sachs suggested Wiseco's on this one and that's what we used. Tuning with my 4 gas analyzer, I can see how efficient heads burn and although I have not had time or a chance to share my readings with Sachs from the tuning, the heads burned exceptionally clean and there was no oxygen (0.2%) and very low HydroCarbons (Raw fuel) that made it through the engine unburned. That oxygen reading and no pinging is nothing to take lightly. It is not very common to be able to burn up that my ch of the oxygen we introduce into the engine without the knock sensor start pulling timing and start audibly hearing ping. That said, of course the other components are players also (ie throttle body, pipe and cams) but the heads were beyond the shadow of any doubt were very well done.
Logged
Specializing in American V-Twin and Authorized Factory Pro 4 Gas Dyno Tuning!

independentmcshop.com

BigLew

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2798
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2014, 11:06:36 AM »

Well thanks for the education, but almost none of it made and sense to me. I was really just repeating what I had been told by my tuner here. And he is pretty sharp. Does a lot of the NASCAR boys bikes. I was just a little afaird to run as much boost as I run (on the gauge) 13lbs, with the copression that S&S advertises. Thats when I got the education about static compression. Because of the profile of the 640 cam it bleeds off a lot of the compression/boost. So its not really a good cam for maximizing the procharger. But its safe. Just wondering what would be better. Not sure if I'm interested in tearing a new motor apart. I'm doing 168TQ its just higher in the rpm range than I would like. But I can tell you that above 4,000 its hard to hold on to. Just a little soft off idle.

BigLew
Logged

Zee110

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 410
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2014, 12:25:32 AM »

Wish you custom shops were just a little bit closer, anyway my new motor should be here in about two weeks   :2vrolijk_21:
Logged

INDEPENDENT_1

  • Superior Performance
  • Vendor
  • Senior CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 380
  • independentmcshop.com
    • independentmcshop.com
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2014, 12:43:57 AM »

Zee, more than happy to sell you a T124, Throttle hog, clutch and a Thundermax at a great price! Bolt it all in, install the TMax with Map already programmed and youre ready to go ride! It really is that simple! You can sell some of your other parts to help offset the costs and Ill give you a great deal if you buy everything to get the build done and ready to run! PM me if you have a good dyno operator in your area, we can cut the price more and use a TTS instead.
Logged
Specializing in American V-Twin and Authorized Factory Pro 4 Gas Dyno Tuning!

independentmcshop.com

CVOThunder

  • Retired avionics squid 1984-2004
  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 972
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2014, 09:10:26 PM »

How is the belt holding up with all the tq the S&S 124 is putting out? I would guess that if you're not racing the bike and still use it for touring that it should last ok. I better get a quote from my local tuner and see what we can do on going this route. There we go again on the warranty thing though. Not that they won't honor it, no concerns there. It's having a warranty count down when I'm overseas and can't ride. Arrgh, why am I getting excited to do this then. POWERRRRR!

While I'm dreaming planning I still wonder about a DD7 and a larger front pulley. Get RPM's down there a bit more when cruising 85-90. How many places allow that kind of speed though. Just local states in my area and others probably are happy to give out tickets. What...building an autobahn sled? :nixweiss:
Logged
2020 Road Glide Limited, 131" kit
2007 Softail Custom
2015 Road Glide Special, denim traded
2011.5 Big Blue Screamin’ Eagle Ultra Classic traded

Zee110

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 410
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2014, 11:11:49 PM »

Thanks INDEPENDENT but already left a deposit with  a builder in Kelowna BC . Soon i will become a snowbird as many other Canadians are, and will be able to come down and get my up grades done with you custom shops in the US as well as a pile of miles in the winter  :2vrolijk_21:

As for CVOThunder i don't think its the belt you have to worry about, its more the rear tire ! :huepfenlol2:
Logged

CVOThunder

  • Retired avionics squid 1984-2004
  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 972
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2014, 11:16:30 PM »

Good point!  :2vrolijk_21:
Logged
2020 Road Glide Limited, 131" kit
2007 Softail Custom
2015 Road Glide Special, denim traded
2011.5 Big Blue Screamin’ Eagle Ultra Classic traded

Yellow09SERG

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2055

    • CVO1: FLTRSE3 YELLOW!!
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2014, 11:41:21 PM »

 :worthless:
Good point!  :2vrolijk_21:

And wheelie bars...... :2vrolijk_21:
Logged
Most great stores start with a bad decision

BigLew

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2798
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2014, 08:39:24 AM »

I've had no belt issues as long as I stayed with the stock Harley belt. Now when I changed the front drive sprocket for a better touring gear......thats a different story. Two belts trashed in 4 months. Went back to stock.

BigLew
Logged

CVOThunder

  • Retired avionics squid 1984-2004
  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 972
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2014, 05:41:08 PM »

Lew by better touring gear do you mean a 30 tooth pulley? I can see how that would give it better dig out of the hole but tear up belts. Not sure why I'm fixated on going the opposite way as most posted limits can easily be exceeded with the stock gearing. Wouldn't need a tall gear to tour the mountains and coast but much of my area is wide open as well as the freeway. I need to get off the slab and enjoy the mountains more often. Just always limited on time getting from point A-B. Maybe that'll change in the future.

H/J off.
Logged
2020 Road Glide Limited, 131" kit
2007 Softail Custom
2015 Road Glide Special, denim traded
2011.5 Big Blue Screamin’ Eagle Ultra Classic traded

BigLew

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2798
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2014, 09:54:39 AM »

I know that the real issue with the 30-32 tooth is when you change the belt its no longer a harley belt and it will break! I broke 2 on a stock 110 and changed it back.

BigLew
Logged

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM

  • Banned
  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2085
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2014, 02:23:15 PM »

How does one acquire 190 ccp assuming this is cold cranking pressure with easy start cams?

Lock the E-Z heel with a piece of rubber, and perform the test, remove after.
PITA but that's what we've done when double-checking.
Scott
Logged

Classic Beast

  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 535
    • BC

    • Bob McImages
Re: 124 s&s engine 585-640 question
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2014, 10:01:09 AM »

Thanks INDEPENDENT but already left a deposit with  a builder in Kelowna BC . Soon i will become a snowbird as many other Canadians are, and will be able to come down and get my up grades done with you custom shops in the US as well as a pile of miles in the winter  :2vrolijk_21:

As for CVOThunder i don't think its the belt you have to worry about, its more the rear tire ! :huepfenlol2:

What Builder in Kelowna are you using?
Logged
2012 Road glide ultra 103
DD7 Baker, S&S 570, Fulsac DX, 2"
SE CNC heads 58mm throttle body
95 FLSTN
127" Ultima
DD6 Baker
3 X PM 6 piston calipers
S&S Clutch
Lindal Ceramic discs
RB Black Hole pipe
Thunderstar mags
6 gal tanks
Custom Chrome front end
Rear chain drive
150WW Avon Venom rear tire
2009 Cadillac CTS-V
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All
 

Page created in 0.332 seconds with 21 queries.