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Author Topic: Runout question  (Read 10291 times)

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cropsure

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Runout question
« on: June 22, 2014, 01:52:28 PM »

Put my bike in the local harley shop Friday to get the Pro Stage III kit installed. Got a call yesterday from the service manager saying there was play in the fly wheels and that the cylinder walls were scored pretty bad. Going to replace fly wheels and cylinders. They did measure the runout and it is at .0006. My question is should I send it out to have it trued and welded or is that number acceptable?  Service manager seemed to think that was fine and not to worry about it.
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Fired00d

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2014, 02:09:03 PM »

Do it now, or do it later (especially if you are increasing TQ/HP from stock)?? If the bike is going to be tore down for mods, do it right the first this time and be done with it. My $.02.. and I did not stay at Holiday Inn Express last night. :D

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mike jesse

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2014, 02:34:51 PM »

Is it .0006 in. or .006 in?
If it's .0006 in. no, don't touch it.
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cropsure

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2014, 03:00:45 PM »

Service manager said six thousandths.  Said that what well within HD's specs.  I read on hear that spec is twelve thousandths?
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INDEPENDENT_1

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2014, 03:06:33 PM »

I suspect you have too many zeros and it's actually .006". Thats pretty close to average on the late models I see here in the shop. At the stage 3 level, you are increasing power substantially and adding more stress to the crank substantially. If you have not already paid for all these parts for the stage 3 I would very strongly consider going with an S&S crate 124. They're damn near bulletproof out of the box, run quieter, make great, real world, useful power that can be increased even further if you want more later on, they're available in granite CVO color now and they damn near pay for themselves in the cost savings you have in labor over building a motor that is going to put out the power in the same ballpark as the S&S and to add a little more icing to the cake, they have a warranty that they actually stand behind! All you have left to address is the throttle body, injectors, tuner and a clutch and you're there! And as required to be a vendor here, Id be more than happy to set you up with everything and a great discount. Yo add to that, you can sell your heads cams and some of the other stuff that are still desirable for other guys doing builds to help fund the whole thing.

Edit: If you decide to build what youve got, I would either get a set of S&S flywheels and replace yours with the increase in power you intend to make or send your to Darkhorse to be reworked. You didnt say if this is an A or B motor. If its a B without question I would do something to the bottom end. The interference (press fit) sprocket on the crank to drive the cain to run the counter balancers are weak. They will move if you put the power to them them and your motor will be out of balance. The factory setup has no splines, no woodruff key, no flat slide, nothing to help keep it from spinning out of time. Big POS.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 03:17:09 PM by INDEPENDENT_1 »
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grc

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2014, 03:29:39 PM »

Put my bike in the local harley shop Friday to get the Pro Stage III kit installed. Got a call yesterday from the service manager saying there was play in the fly wheels and that the cylinder walls were scored pretty bad. Going to replace fly wheels and cylinders. They did measure the runout and it is at .0006. My question is should I send it out to have it trued and welded or is that number acceptable?  Service manager seemed to think that was fine and not to worry about it.

If you plan to replace the flywheel assembly, then the amount of runout on your current flywheel assembly (crankshaft) is a moot point since it won't be going back in the engine.  What "play" in the flywheels was that service manager talking about?

If it were me, rather than just buy another standard Harley flywheel assembly and take the risk that entails, I'd either replace it with a higher quality S&S part or send the old one out to be rebuilt, aligned, balanced, and plugged/welded.  Check out Darkhorse for high quality rebuild and upgrade services.

http://www.darkhorsecrankworks.com/

Jerry
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prodrag1320

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2014, 05:00:22 PM »

ide be finding out what the HD guy is talking about,even if the F/W`s are out .006,that shouldn't have anything to do with scored cylinders.sounds like another HD tech who really dosnt have a clue to whats going on

TorqueInc

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2014, 05:41:16 PM »

ide be finding out what the HD guy is talking about,even if the F/W`s are out .006,that shouldn't have anything to do with scored cylinders.sounds like another HD tech who really dosnt have a clue to whats going on

  Agreed

Is any of this work being done/repaired under warranty ?
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Re: Runout question
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2014, 07:24:30 PM »

Service manager said six thousandths.  Said that what well within HD's specs.  I read on hear that spec is twelve thousandths?

The $64,000.00 dollar question is were they assembled that way from the Moco and haven't moved, or were they much closer, and have slipped?
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cropsure

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2014, 08:26:42 PM »

No, this is not under warranty anymore. 100% on my dime. That's why I was asking because I don't want to have to worry about it blowing up on me in 5 or 10,000 miles. I appreciate everyone's help.
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phato1

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2014, 08:41:40 PM »

Connecting rod play will cause scoring of the cylinder walls, excessive flywheel play (run out) will cause all that and more.....

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INDEPENDENT_1

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2014, 09:13:12 PM »

If it's on your dime, go the low stress route. Get an S&S crate 124 and if a problem should arise, S&S will come to your rescue without hassle and no "more dimes" spent for more power or possible breakdowns later on.
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cropsure

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2014, 09:16:31 PM »

The thing is I've already ordered and paid for the stage III kit. No refunds on that so I'm stuck with it. Just out of curiosity, what's the price on the 124?
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TorqueInc

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Re: Runout question
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2014, 10:55:42 PM »

 The S&S 124 prices are all over the place

  somewhere between $6300-$6800 seem like the norm I am sure someone will sell one cheaper

If you decide to go this route keep in mind you will need to upgrade the clutch and also be prepared to shell out $400-$600 for a throttle body.

  You would also be wise to upgrade the compensator.

  Less expensive  route would be either S&S wheels or have Hoban do the ones in the bike....I would upgrade the rods but that is up to you

  See if the dealership can sell you/swap out a set of .010 over 10.5-1 pistons and have the seasoned cylinders bored....new cylinders ...no thanks

  Should also have the heads gone thru....check out the valves and guides,seals.....install some beehive springs to replace the duals that have way too much seat and open pressure.

    Tune and enjoy
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Re: Runout question
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2014, 11:09:03 PM »

cropsure, PM sent.
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