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[Chief]

Chief,
Don't get me wrong...I commend you for "taking up the fight".  All to often, we accept what big business tells us and leave at that's just the way it's going to be.   I think if they got flooded with a bunch of complaints, then it affects their business case and bottom line, then they may do something about it.  
Cheers  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Red

Don't worry. I knew exactly what you meant, and you're probably right. I'll give it a go and see what happens. If they fix it, I'll get a set. If they don't I'll try to get a set without bungs and weld my own in.

I like a good challenge every now and then, and that's just what this is. Hopefully I can persuade them. If I do, than I will feel like I was successful in helping out. If not, I'll know I tried. Either way I'm happy to try.

Chief

[copout221]

  If I had to do it all over again I would have purchased the complete setup from Zippers who recommended the D&D 2 into 1 setup but I was stubborn and wanted the RH due to their incredible look, sound, and reputation. Overall, now that the issue is resolved I am not going to hold any grudges and may even recommend the RH pipes to people without CVO's or the CVO oil coolers who plan on using a closed loop kit. I still love the distinct harley sound the RH pipes produce even though they are not the best for low end torque compared to other pipes. My last bike (2006 Ultra Classic) sold for top dollar because one of things I had added was the RH exhaust. The guy who bought the bike asked me three times over the phone if the bike had the RH setup which made him even more determined to have it.

  Now if RH DOES decide to relocate the bung to accomodate another sensor on bikes that incorporate oil coolers AND provide me with one I will not only be amazed but will gain intense respect for them as a company. However, I need to look at it like this;
  
   I buy a new home theater receiver and attempt to use it with a very popular stand. The stand blocks the infrared eye to the receiver prohibiting you from using your remote control. Rather than find a way to correct the situation on my own I contact the company who makes the receiver or the stand and ask them to correct the situation and provide me with a new version of the product. I cannot think of one company that would follow through with my request or promise that they would take care of it AND swap out my receiver or stand with the new updated one.

  Overall, at least Karen listened to us and did not automatically make up excuses like most companies would. She had a genuine concern for the matter and even took the concern to the CEO. Like Chief said, if RH receives enough feedback from customers and potential customers it would not surprise me if they make the modification. Another thing that Karen told me is that they would be willing to swap out my right side pipe even if I had to modify it to make the existing sensor work. How many companies would do that ?

[Midnight Rider]

 If I had to do it all over again I would have purchased the complete setup from Zippers who recommended the D&D 2 into 1 setup but I was stubborn and wanted the RH due to their incredible look, sound, and reputation. Overall, now that the issue is resolved I am not going to hold any grudges and may even recommend the RH pipes to people without CVO's or the CVO oil coolers who plan on using a closed loop kit. I still love the distinct harley sound the RH pipes produce even though they are not the best for low end torque compared to other pipes. My last bike (2006 Ultra Classic) sold for top dollar because one of things I had added was the RH exhaust. The guy who bought the bike asked me three times over the phone if the bike had the RH setup which made him even more determined to have it.

  Now if RH DOES decide to relocate the bung to accomodate another sensor on bikes that incorporate oil coolers AND provide me with one I will not only be amazed but will gain intense respect for them as a company. However, I need to look at it like this;
  
   I buy a new home theater receiver and attempt to use it with a very popular stand. The stand blocks the infrared eye to the receiver prohibiting you from using your remote control. Rather than find a way to correct the situation on my own I contact the company who makes the receiver or the stand and ask them to correct the situation and provide me with a new version of the product. I cannot think of one company that would follow through with my request or promise that they would take care of it AND swap out my receiver or stand with the new updated one.

  Overall, at least Karen listened to us and did not automatically make up excuses like most companies would. She had a genuine concern for the matter and even took the concern to the CEO. Like Chief said, if RH receives enough feedback from customers and potential customers it would not surprise me if they make the modification. Another thing that Karen told me is that they would be willing to swap out my right side pipe even if I had to modify it to make the existing sensor work. [highlight]How many companies would do that ?[/highlight]

Very damn few, CO...Karen is great, and I sure hope they're paying her well for her work!!  I needed a couple of muffler clamps, and liked the ones they provide (one of my bolt heads got stripped/loose...my fault), and she sent me two new clamps, no questions asked.  And you're right, nothing sounds quite like RH's!!

[Chief]

Just spoke to Karen to confirm she received my email with the pictures. The email has been forwarded to the CEO.

Hey, maybe we'll get lucky on this one.

Chief

[SBB]

Very damn few, CO...Karen is great, and I sure hope they're paying her well for her work!!  I needed a couple of muffler clamps, and liked the ones they provide (one of my bolt heads got stripped/loose...my fault), and she sent me two new clamps, no questions asked.  And you're right, [highlight]nothing sounds quite like RH's!![/highlight]

Terry

Those left coast guys have the Freedom T/D's, which is a modified R/H.
They are modified to get that low end torque back!
And they sound great!

 [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[Midnight Rider]

Terry

Those left coast guys have the Freedom T/D's, which is a modified R/H.
They are modified to get that low end torque back!
And they sound great!

 [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Chip...have heard nothing but good things about Freedom's (all products) as well.  I'm going to do a couple of other things next year to get my numbers up over the 115 mark....I can't compete with you guys, but I can come as close as I am able.  

[Twolanerider]

C.O., glad to read you got it doing wiht little more than a little heat and a little hammer.  Everything else was certainly frustrating in getting there.  Sounds now like the clearance you've gained is perfectly satisfactory.  All you needed was wiggle room, and it's there.

Would've been reassuring to have a vendor have an easy solution already in hand.  The next best thing is having a quick easy solution in your own hands though.  And that's what you had.  Congrats on getting her done.  Enjoy the ride.

[sadunbar]

Does your bike have an oil cooler? If so you may have a fitment issue where there is not enough clearance between the oil cooler adapter and the new sensor. If I had to do it all over again I would choose another pipe manufacturer rather than not use the Thundermax. I like the idea of the Thundermax so much that I lost $400.00 because I was running a SERT with a semi-custom map and stock ECM. If I have to sell these Rineharts on E-Bay I am willing to take a loss  [smiley=nixweiss.gif] and go with a 2 into 1 D&D Fat Cat system with a ghost pipe on the left side. The D&D's produce more torque and HP compared to the Rineharts. If you have a fitment issue with right side pipe I would pack the entire kit up and exchange it for something that works.

[highlight]The ACR bypass is fairly easy and straightforward. You have to pull a purple wire from the stock ECM wire harness and replace it with a small plastic insert. It took me 10 minutes to complete and I have not had any problems with the bike starting up. It actually starts smoother than before. [/highlight]Good luck with the Rineharts and don't expect any support (From Rinehart) if they don't fit with the Zippers O2 sensor.

I agree, this modification for the acr is easy and straightforward.  Beyond that - Zippers has indicated the fix for this issue is very near.  I would suggest calling John at Zippers before placing your order and ask if the acr fix has been implemented in what you are purchasing.  It may be that if you hold off for a week or two, you will not have to deal with the issue at all.

Scott

[Unbalanced]

Just an FYI:

I Talked to John Kitz on Monday they have the ACR fix in manufacturing /production right now, he said 2 or 3 weeks and they shouldbe available.   They also have a new version of the software coming out really soon as well.   I would tell you to wait 2 weeks before giving him a call unless your calling to put your name on the list so you get one of the first ones with the Thundermax / Autotune that supports the ACR.    

Also for those interested they are looking into bolt in cams for the 110's they should be testing one any time now.  Hopefully it will go well and they will post some results for us to see shortly.  He didnt give any particulars on the topic just that it was in the works.
  

[Twolanerider]

Just an FYI:
They also have a new version of the software coming out really soon as well.  
  

Harry, you know if the update is for new functions available or just normal "fix" updates?

[SBB]

Chip...have heard nothing but good things about Freedom's (all products) as well.  I'm going to do a couple of other things next year to get my numbers up over the 115 mark....I can't compete with you guys, but I can come as close as I am able.  

Terry

Just remember,
It's the combination of the parts, not any part in particular!
You have an excellent base and have started adding the right parts!
Time and money will get you there!
My 103 was at 115 H/P and 123 T

 [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[Unbalanced]

Don,

The Software has some updates to it, useability stuff, John made no mention specifically of what was changed or added.   In regards to the AutoTune the main fix was the for the ACR which they needed to add a driver / software to handle the compression releases.

I expect you will see the software released approximately same time you start to see the new thundermaxes, hopefully sooner,  but that doesn't mean it will actually happened as planned.   It's now a wait and see.  John said his time was slated to work on the software release this past Tuesday, but he did not say if it was going to take a day a week etc.

-harry

[Twolanerider]

Don,

The Software has some updates to it, useability stuff, John made no mention specifically of what was changed or added.   In regards to the AutoTune the main fix was the for the ACR which they needed to add a driver / software to handle the compression releases.

I expect you will see the software released approximately same time you start to see the new thundermaxes, hopefully sooner,  but that doesn't mean it will actually happened as planned.   It's now a wait and see.  John said his time was slated to work on the software release this past Tuesday, but he did not say if it was going to take a day a week etc.

-harry

Thanks Harry.  Mine works so it obviously personally no issue.  Just curious about potential differences.

[Chief]

yes my FLHRSE3 does have an oil cooler. and i hope the acr will be a simple software update.
something has to be done to get these machines afr corrected!

quote from exclusive rinehart distribitor  Drag Specialties fatbook.

 "Features two oxygen sensor ports in the head pipes, which accept closed-loop aftermarket fuel-injection management systems for better performance and reliability"

so what aftermarket systems would use the stock sensors?

and [highlight]while chrome won't get you home, it'll damn sure get you laid[/highlight].
so while my 96 FLHR with rineharts is road worthy the FHHRSE3 has its advantages...

i still have my fingers crossed that it'll go my way.


Ride Safe

 [smiley=worthless.gif]

Chief

[RedDevil]

... "Features two oxygen sensor ports in the head pipes, which accept closed-loop aftermarket fuel-injection management systems for better performance and reliability"

[highlight]so what aftermarket systems would use the stock sensors[/highlight]?

It's all in the wording.  DS states that the pipes will accept aftermarket closed-loop...meaning the sensors will screw into the bungs, which they do, so it's a true statement...they don't say, however, that the pipes will fit on the bike properly with the aftermarket closed-loop system installed.  

Cheers,  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Red