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[Gone Fishin']

Please do not hijack this thread!
It is probably a good idea to gather information on any parts exchanged under warranty or through the product improvement campaigns just launched. So please do not list anything you have done differently from any third party vendors, how great the results may be. List only parts here exchanged on your 2007 or 2008 110" engine by your H-D dealer. The benefit of this thread should come in having information from as many sources as possible, about which parts actually have been exchanged. Many members have had changes done in the past month, and it may be difficult to understand if the new campaigns will be necessary, specifically if the bike runs fine at this time.

Ride safely,
Louis

[Chief]

Please do not hijack this thread!
It is probably a good idea to gather information on any parts exchanged under warranty or through the product improvement campaigns just launched. So please do not list anything you have done differently from any third party vendors, how great the results may be. List only parts here exchanged on your 2007 or 2008 110" engine by your H-D dealer. The benefit of this thread should come in having information from as many sources as possible, about which parts actually have been exchanged. Many members have had changes done in the past month, and it may be difficult to understand if the new campaigns will be necessary, specifically if the bike runs fine at this time.

Ride safely,
Louis

16801-07 gaskets replaced with 16801-07A in April 2007. Leak returned summer 2007. Waiting on next fix.

[Gone Fishin']

These are the parts for my '07 SERK

2 x 16801-07B  GASKET, CYLINDER HEAD HARLEY-DAVIDSON
1 x 17052-99B  GASKET KIT, TOP END HARLEY-DAVIDSON
2 x 17285-07  CYLINDER ASSY, BLACK HARLEY-DAVIDSON
2 x 22284-07  PISTON & RING KIT, STD HARLEY-DAVIDSON

[iski]

Front & rear head leaks in May 08 @ 17,000 miles. Cylinder slip caused leak.

Parts list:
10956          O-Ring (2)
16801-07B    Cylinder Head Gasket (2)
17052-99B    Gasket Kit, Top End  (1)
17285-07      Cylinder Assembly, Black (2)

Bike now has 22000+ miles - all ok since repair.

Mike

[sportygordy]

Speaking out on a prior owned 2007 Ultra CVO


2 brand new motors within a 6 month period both due to shifted crank syndrome.

[Hoist!]

Head gasket started leaking at about 3500 miles. Then............oh nevermind!!!

Hoist!

[iski]

Head gasket started leaking at about 3500 miles. Then............oh nevermind!!!

Hoist!

Spew!!!!!!!!!!!

   

[DESERTBEAR54]

Hoist Harley Davidson CVO!!!

[JDOFLHRIDER]

Here's a dealer update page 1

[JDOFLHRIDER]

page 2

[Hoist!]

That letter sure is clear about the center engine case bolt, not the comp crank bolt!

Thanks for posting that!

Hoist!

[sadunbar]

Here's a dealer update page 1

Doesn't the wording of the notice burn your a$$.  They are not solving a systemic problem, they are offering a "product enhancement".  What a crock of $hit...  It just keeps getting better...  

[Hoist!]

Doesn't the wording of the notice burn your a$$.  They are not solving a systemic problem, they are offering a "product enhancement".  What a crock of $hit...  It just keeps getting better...  

C'mon Scott, did ya expect anything else from them!

Hoist!

[sadunbar]

C'mon Scott, did ya expect anything else from them!

Hoist!

I almost made it thru a Monday without having my blood pressure elevated even once - until I read that.  I hate reading memo's that are written by lawyers and try to avoid the facts...   

[Twolanerider]

Doesn't the wording of the notice burn your a$$.  They are not solving a systemic problem, they are offering a "product enhancement".  What a crock of $hit...  It just keeps getting better...  

No mention of cylinders.

[Twolanerider]

I almost made it thru a Monday without having my blood pressure elevated even once - until I read that.  I hate reading memo's that are written by lawyers and try to avoid the facts...   

Still no mention of cylinders.

[ultrafxr]

Still no mention of cylinders.

Speaking way above my pay grade here, but is it possible that the new design heads could somehow remedy the cylinder liner movement?  Don't know how but these things have got to mate up properly I'd think for everything to work correctly.  Is it possible that with the larger bore the regular heads weren't up to the task?

[britrider]

I am told that the new  heads will have circlips fitted to the valve guides I presume that this is to stop them from moving (down)  into the heads combustion chamber. I have spoken with the MD of HD  Europe and asked him what was to be done about the 110" motor he told me about the changes and fixes, when I enquired about the  cylinder he stated that there was a fix for that as well and that it would be done at the same time as the re-call ---OOOps sorry   not re-call   errrm the product enhancement programe .
As an aside my own dealer knew nothing about the fixes untill I told him and so is just a little bit peeved that HD did not inform the dealers (UK and Europe)  before it was common Knowledge via sites like this  and customers knew more about the problems  and proposed fixes than he did ??

[Chief]

I almost made it thru a Monday without having my blood pressure elevated even once - until I read that.  I hate reading memo's that are written by lawyers and try to avoid the facts...   

We're Harley Davidson. Our chit don't stink!!!

[Twolanerider]

We're Harley Davidson. Our chit don't stink!!!

Chuck, if they screw people around getting the engines fixed someone ought to poke them in the eye with Scott's finger.

[sadunbar]

Chuck, if they screw people around getting the engines fixed someone ought to poke them in the eye with Scott's finger.

I got a rental program in the works...

[Twolanerider]

I got a rental program in the works...

There's got to be a Three Stooges gag in there somewhere.  But I'm missing it right now.... 

[hdbrad03]

I don't understand but maybe it is meant to be that way??? Why are only FLHTCUSE getting the valve guide mod? There is no difference in the 110 applied to ULTRA verses all the other models. The wife's have had valve guide seals pop off the valve guide on her FLHRSE3 to me that would be a sign of valve guide movement. Again the MOCO makes no sense(as always)!!!

 
Brad

[BIGDOG]

No mention of cylinders.
Forgive my stupidity , what is wrong with the cylinders? [inquioring minds want to know]

[Twolanerider]

Forgive my stupidity , what is wrong with the cylinders? [inquioring minds want to know]

A commonly cited cause of at least part of this failure has been liners moving with or expanding beyond the cylinders they are installed in.  Ruining head gaskets in the process.

[sadunbar]

Forgive my stupidity , what is wrong with the cylinders?


You don't own a dealership, do you?  (Stare into the light and repeat after me....)   

[BIGDOG]

I thought the head gasket issue was that it was a layered gasket with no compression ring on it so the layers eventually split apart . Is a liner meant to have any movement under normal conditions?
PS I did stare into the light but I forgot what to repeat.

[iski]

I did not see this document from Steve Phillips (the earlier PDF) - not the info I saw & it was NOT signed by anybody.  Saw something else indicating parts that would be replaced & cylinders WERE included.  Believe what I saw was Tech Tip #372.

[grc]

I did not see this document from Steve Phillips (the earlier PDF) - not the info I saw & it was NOT signed by anybody.  Saw something else indicating parts that would be replaced & cylinders WERE included.  Believe what I saw was Tech Tip #372.

I think it will remain somewhat confusing until the actual Service Bulletin comes out.  By that time all the information from the earlier tech tips and letters should have been consolidated, blessed by the corporate counsel, and purged of all indications of corporate responsibility.  It will turn out that H-D is performing this "Upgrade" strictly out of the goodness of their hearts, to prevent failures caused by owner abuse and acts of God.  It will also still be vague enough that many dealers will not understand it, causing them to piss off customers when they refuse to replace certain parts.  In other words, typical Harley.

Jerry

[mr_magoo]

Hope the heads cure all the top end noise these 110's make.

[Chief]

Hope the heads cure all the top end noise these 110's make.

The majority of the noise on many bikes was found to be from spring retainers hitting the side of the rocker boxes and not from the head itself. They have redesigned the rocker boxes to get more clearance, but those parts are not part of the parts program.

Do you know if your rocker boxes ever got the Dremel service so many of us got. When they clearanced mine, 80% of the clacking went away immediately.

[mr_magoo]

I actuality changed they rocker boxes to the HD billet ones with no improvement.

[Chief]

I actuality changed they rocker boxes to the HD billet ones with no improvement.

Oh. Well, nevermind.

[iski]

I think it will remain somewhat confusing until the actual Service Bulletin comes out.  By that time all the information from the earlier tech tips and letters should have been consolidated, blessed by the corporate counsel, and purged of all indications of corporate responsibility.  It will turn out that H-D is performing this "Upgrade" strictly out of the goodness of their hearts, to prevent failures caused by owner abuse and acts of God.  It will also still be vague enough that many dealers will not understand it, causing them to piss off customers when they refuse to replace certain parts.  In other words, typical Harley.

Jerry

Jerry,

The wording of the letter sent to 110 owners could clear this up.  Or it could muddy this up even more.  Have seen some recall letters that were very straightforward from auto makers - go get "X" fixed, get a loaner car/rental their expense & even extend the warranty.  Other times, they are as obtuse as humanly possible & the wording is so unclear you can barely tell what the letter is about.  Lawyers make lots extra for those letters, IMHO.

I know without a doubt that Global Warming caused my bike to run hot & I trod on dangerous ground with that religion when I took steps to cause it to run cooler. The wrath of the Global Warming god smote my bike in retaliation for my insolence & yea & verily, it did leaketh oil. 

Mike

[mr_magoo]

Would love to get to the bottom of what causes all the noise.  Have adjusted the lifters several times, changed the rocker boxes (if nothing else thought they would deaden some of the noise).

[d o g o l s]

Louis you sound like a dealer

[Gone Fishin']

Louis you sound like a dealer

That is not true. The fact and the sound ;-).

[mr_magoo]

Well just in time washing the bike today and dam rear gasket on the new motor is leaking.  Called the dealer and the service guy didn't have a clue about the letter for the PP #0905.  Think I will wait till the parts guy(a buddy) says the parts kits are in and schedule an appointment and get the new parts rather than fix it this week and bring it back in a few weeks to have this done.

[Chief]

Well just in time washing the bike today and dam rear gasket on the new motor is leaking.  Called the dealer and the service guy didn't have a clue about the letter for the PP #0905.  Think I will wait till the parts guy(a buddy) says the parts kits are in and schedule an appointment and get the new parts rather than fix it this week and bring it back in a few weeks to have this done.

Well, at least there's a chance they'll find out what's causing your noise.

[mr_magoo]

We can only hope this is the fix.  Going to make an appointment at the dealer for the week of the 18th with the hope that the new parts kits will be in earlier if possible.

[iski]

Magoo - Since the 110 is back for 09, chances are much better that HD figures they have got this 110 issue fixed.

If they had bailed out on the 09's and gone to a newer engine, their would have been LOTS of unhappy customers.  Seems to indicate they have a confidence level on this, even if some of us do not.

Ride 'em for enough miles with no problem & that customer confidence returns.


Regardless, best of luck getting yours fixed & hope you can schedule this for the minimum amount of down time.



And I am thinking about cams for mine again when it goes back in.......

[Mopar1]

So, it's not a smart idea to even think about buying a springer?


Man, these problems sound serious..................I might ought to wait awhile!

Thanks,
Paul

[iski]

So, it's not a smart idea to even think about buying a springer?


Man, these problems sound serious..................I might ought to wait awhile!

Thanks,
Paul

On an 08 manufactured after April 08 or an 09, the engine problems appear to have been addressed.


Also, on 08s & 07s they are fixing them under warranty, so there is no cost involved except for time. 

If you are looking at a Springer, just make sure it has the latest engine "fix" & you should be ok. 

Mike

[Bungy]

On an 08 manufactured after April 08 or an 09, the engine problems appear to have been addressed.


Also, on 08s & 07s they are fixing them under warranty, so there is no cost involved except for time. 

If you are looking at a Springer, just make sure it has the latest engine "fix" & you should be ok. 

Mike

How can I tell when mine was manufactured?

[miker]

Left side on the steering neck

[wenchal]

I missed it by about 3 weeks, mine was built late March.

[Mopar1]

Well, I would be looking at an 09, so maybe everything is fixed by now (wishful thinking)[/b]

[08cvouc]

At the 5593 mile mark I took mine in for an oil leak at the rear jug. Here's a list of parts they used to "fix" the problem.
   1 Drain Plug O-Ring
   1 Rubber Gasket kit
   2 Cylinder Head gaskets
   1 Top End gasket kit
   2 Cylinder assemblies
   2 Rocker Housings, lower
   2 Spark Plugs
   1 Oil Filter
   4 Qts Syn3

I then took it out west for 2-1/2 weeks, put 5700 miles on it and noticed it seemed to be using oil. Back to the dealer when I got home. Here's a list for this time. By the way I changed oil about half way through my trip.
   1 Rubber Gasket kit
   2 Rocker Housing gaskets
   2 Cylinder head gaskets
   2 Rocker Covers
   4 Valve seals
   2 Spark Plugs

It's starting to look like I can expect to rebuild the motor every 5500 miles. Maybe I'll just rebuild the motor at every oil change. It will be easier to keep track of. I sure am glad I bought their top of the line model.

[FNGw/08SERK]

Head gasket leak repaired 4/28/08 @ 4235 miles. Bike build date 7/07
Parts used:

2 O-Rings                    Part# 10956
2 O-Rings                    Part# 11273
2 Cylinder Head Gaskets Part# 16801-07B
1 Top End Gasket Kit     Part# 17052-99B


Howie

[Buvy]

Just called my dealership and the SM had just learned about the recall this morning.  He was floored that I was reading content from the letter already.

Needless to say I have a service appointment scheduled for when I get back to Detroit of August 27th which will be just in time for my big baseball park tour I'm doing starting September 5th.

Thanks guys for all the heads up you rock.

Sorry if this was a 

[MirageGWK]

I picked up my bike yesterday from the dealer, and was told about the recall. The dealer had approval to rebuild my top end, but then the Motor Company said wait for the recall parts. Does anyone know what Harley is going to change?

[Buvy]

I picked up my bike yesterday from the dealer, and was told about the recall. The dealer had approval to rebuild my top end, but then the Motor Company said wait for the recall parts. Does anyone know what Harley is going to change?

Assuming your bike is the bike in your avatar you will be getting program 0905 which entails

top end gaskets
center crankcase bolt
Automatic Compression Release.
heads with the new valve guides

I've already scheduled to take my bike to the dealership on 8/27 and when they perform the recall I'm going to upgrade the cams and have them port the new heads.   I'm also going to have yet another "enhancement" (*cough* bugfix *cough*) installed while she's in the shop in the form of the timken bearing.

[Hoist!]

Assuming your bike is the bike in your avatar you will be getting program 0905 which entails

top end gaskets
center crankcase bolt
Automatic Compression Release.
heads with the new valve guides

I've already scheduled to take my bike to the dealership on 8/27 and when they perform the recall I'm going to upgrade the cams and have them port the new heads.   I'm also going to have yet another "enhancement" (*cough* bugfix *cough*) installed while she's in the shop in the form of the timken bearing.

If you're splitting the cases to do the Timken, I hope you're looking at either changing, or truing/welding your crankshaft while you're down there!

Hoist!

[Eqcons]

I have spoken with the MD of HD  Europe and asked him

DAVE!  is that you?

[Eqcons]

Hope the heads cure all the top end noise these 110's make.

Amen to that, though I doubt they will!

Jim

[PHAZE]

My '07 SERK is at dealership now for a new digital gas gage and what will probably be my third speedo/tach.  I've suggested they just keep the bike in for the "Product Improvement".  What else should I suggest they check out besides the items listed in the improvement?  The mechanic that I've asked to do the work seems to be somewhat meticulous and I think he might go above and beyond if I suggest items that I'd like for him to check while he doing the required work.

[jpb]

As Always,

Still Confused!

I understand what some of the fix is going to be but have two questions:

(1)  Why a new case center bolt?  Does it have to do with length, tensile strength or are they putting a sealing ring under it's head like the inner primary bolts are?

(2) Looks to me and I'm sure to all of you that the most important part of all this is missing (NEW CYLINDERS).  Also confusing is that some have had sleeves shift up and others shift down.  Shifting up looks like it would only tighten itself more against the head gasket, while shifting down would more likely cause the leak.  Furthermore, just how far down can it slip.  I assume that it is shouldered against the case and can't move.  I have not seen the bottom of the Harley cylinder, but looking at my new Axtells the sleeve has a large shoulder that spans over the o-ring groove.

Thanks!

JPB

[sadunbar]

My '07 SERK is at dealership now for a new digital gas gage and what will probably be my third speedo/tach.  I've suggested they just keep the bike in for the "Product Improvement".  What else should I suggest they check out besides the items listed in the improvement?  The mechanic that I've asked to do the work seems to be somewhat meticulous and I think he might go above and beyond if I suggest items that I'd like for him to check while he doing the required work.

Have him check your crank runout...   

[pokerpig]

As Always,

Still Confused!

I understand what some of the fix is going to be but have two questions:

(1)  Why a new case center bolt?  Does it have to do with length, tensile strength or are they putting a sealing ring under it's head like the inner primary bolts are?

(2) Looks to me and I'm sure to all of you that the most important part of all this is missing (NEW CYLINDERS).  Also confusing is that some have had sleeves shift up and others shift down.  Shifting up looks like it would only tighten itself more against the head gasket, while shifting down would more likely cause the leak.  Furthermore, just how far down can it slip.  I assume that it is shouldered against the case and can't move.  I have not seen the bottom of the Harley cylinder, but looking at my new Axtells the sleeve has a large shoulder that spans over the o-ring groove.

Thanks!

JPB

I asked about cylinders, and this is what was explained to me:

There are two separate problems 1) gaskets and 2) cylinders. Unfortunately, a lot of people have lumped these together into one because the symptoms from each are similar (oil leak).

HD thinks that the problem with cylinders is limited to a smaller number of u, and that any liner movement shows up in the first few thousand miles. (My dealer confirms that that is his experience – any comments?) On the other hand, gasket problems are pretty universal.

So they are not going to replace cylinders as part of the “product improvement campaign.”

BUT, if you find you have a bad cylinder (like when the bike is torn down for “product improvement”) it’s still eligible for warranty replacement.

[DESERTBEAR54]

Like my burn't powder coating on the cylinder caused by the oil leak. Touch up doesn't work so they replaced the cylinders.

[scottt]

I brought the campaign to my dealers attention. They called the factory and was told, yes, the campain was true, and yes my bike will be included, but they do not have a time for parts to go out and no further information. It sounds like it will take some time for the factory to get the kits out. My dealer did not know anything about the campain, they just said they needed a lot of kits due to the number of 07 CVO's they just worked on.

I am getting ready to ride back to Harley's 105th. I had hoped to have the repairs all complete before the trip, I guess I will wait until I return.

Scottt

[Steve_G]

Who has had the improvements done to their bike, or had a bike built after May 14th '08 who has still had leakage problems?  I just can't understand how any gasket can solve the problem of cylinder liner slippage.   

I would hate to have to take my bike back after having the "Product Improvement Campaign" stuff done to my bike, only to have to go through another service nightmare down the road a few thousand miles later.

[Chief]

Who has had the improvements done to their bike, or had a bike built after May 14th '08 who has still had leakage problems?  I just can't understand how any gasket can solve the problem of cylinder liner slippage.   

I would hate to have to take my bike back after having the "Product Improvement Campaign" stuff done to my bike, only to have to go through another service nightmare down the road a few thousand miles later.

Steve,

The new gasket is designed to tolerate a small amount of liner movement and still maintain an oil-tight seal. If the liner moves a lot, it will leak.

A little is OK, a lot is not.

[Steve_G]

Steve,

The new gasket is designed to tolerate a small amount of liner movement and still maintain an oil-tight seal. If the liner moves a lot, it will leak.

A little is OK, a lot is not.

What determines how much slippage will happen?  To me it still leaves an unsettled feeling about the reliability of my bike.  Obviously the slippage problem has been noted in quite a few cases by members of this web site.  Is it being ignored because the overall numbers are small enough that the Mo Co can use their typical denial tactic?

 I feel like it is half a fix.  It may also simply forestall the problem and mask it until several thousand miles down the road. 

[Chief]

What determines how much slippage will happen?  To me it still leaves an unsettled feeling about the reliability of my bike.  Obviously the slippage problem has been noted in quite a few cases by members of this web site.  Is it being ignored because the overall numbers are small enough that the Mo Co can use their typical denial tactic?

 I feel like it is half a fix.  It may also simply forestall the problem and mask it until several thousand miles down the road. 

That's a great question. Don't know the answer. I'm pretty confident that the liner movement is the root cause for the majority of leaks. The first revised gasket changed the nature of where the leak appeared, but didn't solve it. The new gasket, while not fixing the liner issue, at least does a better job of maintaining an oil-tight seal while allowing the liner / cylinder mismatch to occur to a degree.

Steel and aluminum expand a different rates when heated, so differing amounts of movement for the steel linner and aluminum cylinder is inevitable. Hopefully they'll figure out how to keep the liner tops flush with the cylinder castings so these leaks won't be a problem any more on the 110's.

They seem to have a handle on it for the other models, just not the 110's. A new cylinder design for the 110's is the obvious answer, but they'll keep going with new gaskets until it's proven that they can't solve, or hide, it with gaskets.

[pokerpig]

That's a great question. Don't know the answer. I'm pretty confident that the liner movement is the root cause for the majority of leaks. The first revised gasket changed the nature of where the leak appeared, but didn't solve it. The new gasket, while not fixing the liner issue, at least does a better job of maintaining an oil-tight seal while allowing the liner / cylinder mismatch to occur to a degree.

Steel and aluminum expand a different rates when heated, so differing amounts of movement for the steel linner and aluminum cylinder is inevitable. Hopefully they'll figure out how to keep the liner tops flush with the cylinder castings so these leaks won't be a problem any more on the 110's.

They seem to have a handle on it for the other models, just not the 110's. A new cylinder design for the 110's is the obvious answer, but they'll keep going with new gaskets until it's proven that they can't solve, or hide, it with gaskets.

I'm not so confident. I have spoke to my dealer and another dealer in the area - both told me that the majority of gasket replacements they have done so far didn't require new cylinders, especially more recently.

My dealer has told me that if when they take off my heads doing the "product enhancement" and find bad cylinders, then they will replace them under warranty. He also told me "if it hasn't shifted by now it isn't going to."

It would be interesting to do a survey after some of the members here have their bikes in for "product enhancement" to find out how many ended up bad cylinders.

[Chief]

I'm not so confident. I have spoke to my dealer and another dealer in the area - both told me that the majority of gasket replacements they have done so far didn't require new cylinders, especially more recently.

My dealer has told me that if when they take off my heads doing the "product enhancement" and find bad cylinders, then they will replace them under warranty. He also told me "if it hasn't shifted by now it isn't going to."

It would be interesting to do a survey after some of the members here have their bikes in for "product enhancement" to find out how many ended up bad cylinders.

Originally, mechanics were replacing cylinders if any lip could be felt at the liner. Now, Harley has once again increased the allowable spec to 0.004" of allowable movement, just below the threshhold that the gasket will contain.

[hard10]

...
My dealer has told me that if when they take off my heads doing the "product enhancement" and find bad cylinders, then they will replace them under warranty. He also told me "if it hasn't shifted by now it isn't going to."

It would be interesting to do a survey after some of the members here have their bikes in for "product enhancement" to find out how many ended up bad cylinders.

I've had my cylinders replaced on the first go around. On the subsequent head gasket replacements, the dealer has said that the cylinders looked good. I will wait until after MV08 to have the "PIC" done as to add more miles and not interfere with the riding season.

[Lennyiti]

Was at my dealer Saturday and they told me HD was going to replace the heads on all 110s. Told me I would be getting a letter in a few weeks. Anyone else heard this?

[Chief]

Was at my dealer Saturday and they told me HD was going to replace the heads on all 110s. Told me I would be getting a letter in a few weeks. Anyone else heard this?

Yes. Read the letter attached to reply #8 in this thread (page 1).

[hard10]

Was at my dealer Saturday and they told me HD was going to replace the heads on all 110s. Told me I would be getting a letter in a few weeks. Anyone else heard this?

Yes. Read the letter attached to reply #8 in this thread (page 1).

Before anyone asks, I looked up the original P/N's for the heads: Front Cylinder Head 17253-07, Rear Cylinder Rear 17257-07.

[skreminegul07]

My fear is that when the open up the motor, they notice the cylinder has slipped.  Now a thousand people are having their motor's opened up in the same 4-6 weeks.  What do you think the odds are of waiting 2-3 years for cylinders?  Before this campaign, most waited 2-4 weeks for cylinders.  It won't be pretty.  I'm not letting them touch it without spare cylinders sitting next to my bike. 

[skreminegul07]

Before anyone asks, I looked up the original P/N's for the heads: Front Cylinder Head 17253-07, Rear Cylinder Rear 17257-07.

Chief, is that for an assembled head?

[hard10]

Chief, is that for an assembled head?

Yes, that # includes VALVE GUIDE, VALVE SEAL, & SEAT (black)

[skreminegul07]

thanks

[Chief]

thanks

You're welcome. 

[hard10]

You're welcome. 

Look, you're my friend and all but...   

kiss my a$$

[Chief]

Look, you're my friend and all but...   

kiss my a$$

 

[JDOFLHRIDER]

7000 miles ago ,they put a new crank (rods tight) and when they did my motor they did a valve job and the motor man said mine had gray valve  seats that were soft .DO the new heads have valves and ready to bolt on ,and are the seats soft or hard? thanks jdo

[Steve_G]

I called my dealer, Black Hills HD, asked for the service department, and was told that they won't be taking calls until the 18th of August because of the Sturgis Rally.  By the time everyone in Rapid City with an '07 or '08 CVO gets lined up for the "fix", I should be able to get mine in by next spring.

I'm sure glad I bought my bike from the local dealer so I can get such priority treatment! 

I've decided to quit enjoying my bike and treat it like a jigsaw puzzle.  I'll find a piece here or there that fits, then go do something else for a few weeks.  This way I'll save money on gas, and my Edsel will last that much longer!  Maybe in a couple of years I will be able to get this "Product Improvement" deal looked at.  By not rushing, MAYBE they'll have the whole thing figured out by then. 

And, as an additional benefit, I won't be on a diet of lightly salted roasted nuts all summer!
-Anyway, I'll be sure to let you know how it works out.   

[JDOFLHRIDER]

I talked to fact. service rep today he said even if my warrenty is up aug 2 I will still get recall heads when the parts are avalible. That means another winter project . ride safe  jdo

[hdblackice2007]

just got mine back 2007 blackice leaking rear head gasket and rear base gasket they call Harley rep was told parts be in the next morning and got bike back with in a week they said they did everything to Harley specs and i got 200 hundred miles  on so far bike never ran so good we will see
going to the 105 th next month hope to put 1000 miles on b4 that see if this is the fix or band aid i got 7 years they have to put up with me
i got 10,000  miles on my bike the only nice thing is that Harley tech service said parts be at shop in morning and they were
any one else had this done yet

[twojay]

just got mine back 2007 blackice leaking rear head gasket and rear base gasket they call Harley rep was told parts be in the next morning and got bike back with in a week they said they did everything to Harley specs and i got 200 hundred miles  on so far bike never ran so good we will see
going to the 105 th next month hope to put 1000 miles on b4 that see if this is the fix or band aid i got 7 years they have to put up with me
i got 10,000  miles on my bike the only nice thing is that Harley tech service said parts be at shop in morning and they were
any one else had this done yet

If you do a search on this site, you will find that a lot of people have undergone these repairs to their bikes. Some with good results and some with not so good ones. I have put 4000 miles on my serk3 since the gasket change and so far so good. However some people have went through multiple sets of gaskets, not to mention other major repairs and part replacement. Good luck and enjoy your trip. jj

[olli]

In the Bulletin (0905) it says: "P&A registered Street-Legal Accessory 110 kit equipped 2007/2008 Ultra model motorcycles are also included".
My dealer have done this modification into my Ultra 2008 before delivering the bike to me. Now I am wondering if my bike is included!
I didn´t find my bike in the vin-list. Should my dealer have to inform and register this kit installation to the factory?
Or what does "registered" in the bulletin mean?

[PHAZE]

In the Bulletin (0905) it says: "P&A registered Street-Legal Accessory 110 kit equipped 2007/2008 Ultra model motorcycles are also included".
My dealer have done this modification into my Ultra 2008 before delivering the bike to me. Now I am wondering if my bike is included!
I didn´t find my bike in the vin-list. Should my dealer have to inform and register this kit installation to the factory?
Or what does "registered" in the bulletin mean?

Just yesterday afternoon I was talking to a guy with a similar situation and told him about this site.  You weren't hangin' around and old biker waterin' hole yesterday afternoon were ya?

[olli]

Just yesterday afternoon I was talking to a guy with a similar situation and told him about this site.  You weren't hangin' around and old biker waterin' hole yesterday afternoon were ya?

No, I wasn´t there! I live far North in Finland!

[hard10]

No, I wasn´t there! I live far North in Finland!

I guess not then! 

Welcome! I see you only have 2 posts. Glad you are here!

[Twolanerider]

I guess not then! 

Welcome! I see you only have 2 posts. Glad you are here!

AJ, is North Finland next to North Dakota?

[olli]

AJ, is North Finland next to North Dakota?

No it isn´t . It´s in Northern Europe.
Santa Claus do have his headquarters very next to me! So keep kind

[grandpadoc]

"Vice President Operational Excellence and Techncal Service"    WTF, where has he been for the last two years !!  Did Harley just create another layer of management for this website. It must be a intern position.    Doc

[hard10]

"Vice President Operational Excellence and Techncal Service"    WTF, where has he been for the last two years !!  Did Harley just create another layer of management for this website. It must be a intern position.    Doc

Where did that come from Doc? I couldn't find who you were quoting.

[grandpadoc]

Where did that come from Doc? I couldn't find who you were quoting.

Reply #9  "page 2"

110 update_2.pdf

[hard10]

Reply #9  "page 2"

110 update_2.pdf

Nice title if you can get it.

"Vice President Operational Excellence and Technical Service"

[hayman7712]

Is this "Improvement Campaign" required to be done by the dealer, or at the dealers discretion?

[Gone Fishin']

Is this "Improvement Campaign" required to be done by the dealer, or at the dealers discretion?

The letter is written in a way that the dealer has actually no choice. However, they may try to push you into off season, like "We can take care of that in the winter".

[hayman7712]

 How do you get a copy of this "letter"  Thanks, Dean.

[Gunnerp245]

How do you get a copy of this "letter"  Thanks, Dean.

In this thread: http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=25247.255 they talk about Product Program 0905.

In this thread: http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=26234.45 they talk about Product Program 0906.

  Stolen from "Dan_Lockwood" post...

[hayman7712]

When will Harley send me the letter? Or, do you have to call Harley.  Thanks,  Dean.

[T MAC]

When will Harley send me the letter? Or, do you have to call Harley.  Thanks,  Dean.

If you tell the service manager at the dealership you are already aware of the enhancement program they should get you in.  My local dealer already has the parts and called me to schedule the work. 

If you go to Harley website and put your vin# in  as has been said in an earlier post then it will tell you what campaign you are in.  You should not need a letter this should be sufficient for the dealer.

[gary h]

I just thought you all might like to know I got the updates performed last week. Picked up the bike on Friday and went back to the dealer on Saturday to plan another visit to the shop. Upper end noise at between 2500 and 3000 rpm's (ticking sound). I just to not think they know what is going on inside these 110 motors. Mind got the new heads in the update 0905. It sounds like pushrod to rocker arm clearence.

[Gone Fishin']

I just thought you all might like to know I got the updates performed last week. Picked up the bike on Friday and went back to the dealer on Saturday to plan another visit to the shop. Upper end noise at between 2500 and 3000 rpm's (ticking sound). I just to not think they know what is going on inside these 110 motors. Mind got the new heads in the update 0905. It sounds like pushrod to rocker arm clearence.

Could it be the automatic chain tensioner just being a bit off? The noise at these revs speaks for that ...

[skreminegul07]

I just thought you all might like to know I got the updates performed last week. Picked up the bike on Friday and went back to the dealer on Saturday to plan another visit to the shop. Upper end noise at between 2500 and 3000 rpm's (ticking sound). I just to not think they know what is going on inside these 110 motors. Mind got the new heads in the update 0905. It sounds like pushrod to rocker arm clearence.

Going back over a year with the rocker box noise.  Regarding the 07's, some did, some didn't I believe it was determined that there was enough play in the mounting holes to cause the noise if moved all the way in one direction and no noise if moved the other way.
So if your rockers boxes were never clearanced and then removed and replaced in this program, you may now have the clearance issue because of the way the tech installed them.  HD redesigned the rocker boxes to eliminate this issue, but noy included in any program.
No one knew thse top ends would be on and off more times than the light switch in your bathroom.
My two lincolns.

[gary h]

Louis

I will try driving it a couple of days before the appointment and see if the noise goes away. I thank you for your answer. Didn't think of that, was just upset with another problem.

[sleepybare]

I guess the following would be somewhat correct. I'm not sure the part numbers are right as I have had this work completed two times and each time they tell me the parts have been up-graded by the motor company. Now I am in receipt of a letter for the replacement of  all of these item again with the new and improved version including the heads and Crank bolt....Again with the new up-graded version........Ho-hum

10956          O-Ring (2)
16801-07B    Cylinder Head Gasket (2)
17052-99B    Gasket Kit, Top End  (1)

[hard10]

I stopped by the dealer today. As usual it was around closing time so most everyone had gone. I spoke to the mechanic about 0905 and what was entailed then spoke to the service writer. This is where it gets interesting. She told me that I needed go get "on the list" (literally) in order for them to order the parts for me. These parts were only coming one set at a time. There were five people ahead of me on the "list". The first set had not yet come in and after the first bike was complete they could order the next set. The sets were both 0905 and 0906. So whether it was gaskets and heads (0905) or just gaskets (0906) everyone was on the same "waiting" list. I guess I should be thankful I didn't need it done in a hurry!

[Twolanerider]

I stopped by the dealer today. As usual it was around closing time so most everyone had gone. I spoke to the mechanic about 0905 and what was entailed then spoke to the service writer. This is where it gets interesting. She told me that I needed go get "on the list" (literally) in order for them to order the parts for me. These parts were only coming one set at a time. There were five people ahead of me on the "list". The first set had not yet come in and after the first bike was complete they could order the next set. The sets were both 0905 and 0906. So whether it was gaskets and heads (0905) or just gaskets (0906) everyone was on the same "waiting" list. I guess I should be thankful I didn't need it done in a hurry!

AJ, first reaction is to say: "What a crock.  How do 'schedule' failure and factory mandated replacement."

However....  Looking to give any potential benefit of the doubt here.  Do you suppose they're concerned the "fix" won't in fact be a fix and are hoping that dribbling them out one at a time might let them know what to expect for future bikes?

Or are they just arrogant dipsticks?

[sadunbar]

AJ, first reaction is to say: "What a crock.  How do 'schedule' failure and factory mandated replacement."

However....  Looking to give any potential benefit of the doubt here.  Do you suppose they're concerned the "fix" won't in fact be a fix and are hoping that dribbling them out one at a time might let them know what to expect for future bikes?

Or are they just arrogant dipsticks?

It would seem individual dealers are making up their own rules of implementation...  and as usual, the communication amongst the dealers and the MOCO is poor.  My local dealer of choice is not encumbered by the "one at a time" process...   

[hard10]

AJ, first reaction is to say: "What a crock.  How do 'schedule' failure and factory mandated replacement."

However....  Looking to give any potential benefit of the doubt here.  Do you suppose they're concerned the "fix" won't in fact be a fix and are hoping that dribbling them out one at a time might let them know what to expect for future bikes?

Or are they just arrogant dipsticks?

Don, I would answer that as: "D", all of the above.

[Gone Fishin']

I stopped by the dealer today. As usual it was around closing time so most everyone had gone. I spoke to the mechanic about 0905 and what was entailed then spoke to the service writer. This is where it gets interesting. She told me that I needed go get "on the list" (literally) in order for them to order the parts for me. These parts were only coming one set at a time. There were five people ahead of me on the "list". The first set had not yet come in and after the first bike was complete they could order the next set. The sets were both 0905 and 0906. So whether it was gaskets and heads (0905) or just gaskets (0906) everyone was on the same "waiting" list. I guess I should be thankful I didn't need it done in a hurry!

To me this is obviously a tactic of the dealer to keep the work on the warranty issues to a minimum level in the shop. Many other dealers seem to have no problems in getting the parts in multiples, if they have several customers with 110 work at hand. This work will have to be done in any case, so why not drag it into the autumn, and do parts and accessories installs during riding season. The dealer may even think he's doing a service to other customers by not "clogging" his shop with the 110 campaign work. Bah!

[ox666]

You blokes are so lucky.  Down here owners aren't even being written to and dealers are being told not to do anything unless an actual problem exists.  Well this mushroom aint waitin'.

[ultrafxr]

Sure sounds like your dealer is trying to limit his warranty work AJ.  From everything I know/read/learned the parts are vin specific so order must be placed against your vin but I had no problem getting my 0905 parts ordered and they are in awaiting my appointment next week.  Bad enought getting jerked around my the moco without the dealers taking up where they left off.  Good luck.

[hard10]

Sure sounds like your dealer is trying to limit his warranty work AJ.  From everything I know/read/learned the parts are vin specific so order must be placed against your vin but I had no problem getting my 0905 parts ordered and they are in awaiting my appointment next week.  Bad enought getting jerked around my the moco without the dealers taking up where they left off.  Good luck.

I'm still trying to decide if the waiting should be an issue to me or not. Right now everything seems to be ok & I don't want anything to happen to screw up my trip to MV08! I have already lost a trip to MBBW this year because of this bike and if anything happens to mess up MV08 I'm going to blow a gasket!

[Gone Fishin']

I'm still trying to decide if the waiting should be an issue to me or not. Right now everything seems to be ok & I don't want anything to happen to screw up my trip to MV08! I have already lost a trip to MBBW this year because of this bike and if anything happens to mess up MV08 I'm going to blow a gasket!

You should not let this issue spoil any riding fun. Many people on this site have ridden hundreds, even thousands of miles with a leaking gasket. On the other hand, the story does tell you something about your dealer.

Ride safely,
Louis

[ROADROD]

AJ..i won,t name any dealers but i had mine done about sixty miles north of you..no problem getting parts and bike was done in 2 days.....

[hard10]

AJ..i won,t name any dealers but i had mine done about sixty miles north of you..no problem getting parts and bike was done in 2 days.....

Now you tell me  .
I know I could go elsewhere but like I said, I'm still thinking about doing this after MV08.
Mike, are you & the MRS. coming?

[Eqcons]

You blokes are so lucky.  Down here owners aren't even being written to

Same up here!

Jim

[ROADROD]

Now you tell me  .
I know I could go elsewhere but like I said, I'm still thinking about doing this after MV08.
Mike, are you & the MRS. coming?

AJ..have to miss mv08..better half is having a alumni party that weekend that i can not get out of ..it sure sounds like i am going to miss a lot of fun though...

[mspeedbishop]

 
i have an 07 FLHX P&A 110 purchased in very early 07.  The only non HD parts are V&H duals,  Rinehart slipons and TMax.  Ran sweet until March April 08 when I started seeing high Oil Temps (have the guage replacing the air temp) and low oil pressures - but only after riding 60-100 miles,  therefore difficult to duplicate.  Had some bad episodes,  engine started shaking and no torque and eventually would plain old STOP RUNNING..... at least 3 episodes towed into the shop with them offering no salitne solution unless I offered an idea....

Had at least 6 (probly more like a dozen) visits to dealer on this - all with resulting reports like, "running within spec" "cant duplicate problem" "customer has tuned a lean condition".... this is my 1rst HD and my 1rst EFI experience (I've taken apart and rebuilt and restored a 1rst gen camaro - so im not completely lost with a wrench although no wizard either.....) - they had me believing my tunes were snafu'd,  despite 9+ months of succesful tunes previously,.... (they sell and install TMAX but dont even have the software to check the diags - hmmmmm)  eventually got a zippers tech to visit their shop.... he modified my tune,  but not siginificantly per his report... and one O2 sensor was physically impinged - we replaced them on my dime to ensure that they were sensing correctly and.,.... then this recall appeared on this site

I brought it to the dealer,  (he didnt even know about it) and presented that I should get the heads as well since I run full upper and lower fairings and tourpak analogous to Ultra - they said no - gaskets only,.... and while waiting for the set to arrive - I developed rear cylinder leak....  they performed the enhancement and never asked me if that or the zippers collaboration affected my problem....

so i put electrical tape over the oil temp guage and figgered... maybe this is just the way these bikes run,  it'll either get me 900 miles to Milwaukee ,  then back for 105 or not.....  1rst tank o gas i knew it wasnt runnin right, next tank of gas 90 MPH for the whole tank - next rest stop pulled in smokin, motor drenched with oil percolating out the crank position sensor - HOG picked me up and a dealer 300+ miles from home got my wife and i a loaner and we carried on - they are installing a new CVO 110 crate and I will pick up when done,  and I will know once and for all by the time i am home if it was the motor or the tune - but I now am reasonably sure that it was the CPS that was fissured/flawed and micro flexing at full warmth throwing off timing and causing detonation and overheating - If I learn otherwise I will report back - very dissapointed in my dealer that they dismissed me as a difficult customer and FOS on my problem's existance,  I'll now have to log 1200 extra miles returning the loaner last week and picking up my bike next week - but - i DO GET my new motor which I had asked the moco for also with no results - also the moco rep sez that the crank runout spec is NOT .012 but couldnt explain it,  used some sematics to dance around it  - and OBTW no motor has a crank runout spec greater than .005 - try to find one,  not even a skidoo or a flathead ford

I'm not mentioning either of the dealers names until the egg hatches - then I'll read the riot act to mine and spread some good press for the one that granted the fix and the loaner gratis.....

I understand some products have issues, thats OK if you deal with it amenably  - but its a lotta money to be treated like a chump

p.s. my wife was a real sport about taking a failed 900 mile test and tune ride - her first....

[igofar]

Sounds like a failed oil pump due to crank runout doesn't it guys?

Good idea on running it until HD had no choice but to agree there is "something" wrong!!

Brad

[GerardDyna]

Hello everyone,
I know this is an old thread. I am waiting for my 2008 Dyna SE 105th anniversary to be delivered from the dealer I have a question. As the Dyna only has less than 1900 miles on it I am not sure if the recall has been done. I have asked to dealer to check and do the fix if necessary, but they haven't reacted to me back yet. I expect it has been done in the past, but if not the case, I think that they are not particularly interested to do the work because the recall action has been dealt with 2 years and also the want to deliver the Dyna with little work on it (the bike is new!). Also I am not really interested to wait for weeks to get my Dyna because the dealer is completely booked for service.

Could you advise me: let the fix done NOW or can I do it later during winter interval when the dealer has more time?

Thanks,

Gerard

[skreminegul07]

Program 906 is for bikes built before May 14, 2008.  The program expired sometime this month, 2 years later.  Go to HDs web site.  There is a place to check for maintenance ino.  you can put in the VIN and it will tell you if the bike needs the program.

[GerardDyna]

I checked my vin number but the website is telling me nothing. Even when I fill in higher mileages it tells nothing but the details of the bike. How can i find out the production month?

Thanks

[hard10]

First and easiest thing to check is the color of the engine tag. If the words "Screamin Eagle 110" are on a black background, the heads most likely have already been replaced. If the tag has a white background, they will definitely need to be done.

[skreminegul07]

First and easiest thing to check is the color of the engine tag. If the words "Screamin Eagle 110" are on a black background, the heads most likely have already been replaced. If the tag has a white background, they will definitely need to be done.

Not exactly true.  The Dynas, Softails and Roadkings were not given replacement heads in the program #906. (may have the numbers reversed)  The Ultras got new heads and therefore had their own program #905.
Also, many were given new engine tags because of discoloring long before the program.

[GerardDyna]

The words screamin eagle 110 are indeed on black background. So i can be assured that the refix has been done, or that my bike is built later?

[Rooster]

My tags were changed out after turning gold to the black ones way before the 905 campain as the stock ones had a silver backround. Both head gasket and base gasket started leaking again within a couple hundred miles of the 905.

[sadunbar]

The words screamin eagle 110 are indeed on black background. So i can be assured that the refix has been done, or that my bike is built later?

It makes it more likely, but does not assure it. 

Go to your dealer with the vin number and ask them for the date of manufacture.  If the date of manufacture is on the wrong side of the line, ask whether or not the product improvement has been completed.

[mspeedbishop]

i had posted in 2008 - see « Reply #117 on: September 06, 2008, 04:49:13 PM » - that I had my 2007 P&A 110 replaced with a crate CVO 110 after catastrphic failure - FYI if helpful to anyone - the replacement does have black background logos,  the prior did not.

additional info - i began having probs at 14k miles and failed at ~17k running fairly stock with Tmax - after the replacement,  the next time hot weather rolled around I experienced that first symptoms of the problem I had before - low oil pressure and high temps at the sensor in the oil cooler - took it to zippers - they loaded a new tune - it almost killed the bike on the way home,  I had the laptop and went back to previous - dumped Tmax for PC-USB,  which has less GO to it - but I have not 30k on the bike and 17 on the motor with much hot weather riding and no overheating or oil pressure probs

pics from 2k mile trip thru skyline, blue ridge smokies, deals gap and return - all hot weather - no issues - hope all find the help they need with this issue -
peace

MSB
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