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[Billy]

The manual says to always start bike in neutral. I have never done this . Is this just for safety so the bike won't lurch forward or is there a mechanical failure possible?   Thanks Billy

[bbrown]

I think saftey???   I rarely shift to nuetral

[ultrafxr]

Yes and yes.  Several folks (techs included) have told me it puts more of a load on the starter.  I always used to start in gear but now I start in neutral - well most of the time anyway.   

[ChopperPilot]

I start in neutral most of the time, a safety issue as well as, harder on the starter and battery to turn the engine over.

[Fired00d]

I start in neutral also.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[SanJuanRon]

I always start in neutral (less stress on bike).  And, I always have the clutch pulled in (old habit).  SJ Ron

[110tHunDer]

I always start in neutral (less stress on bike).  And, I always have the clutch pulled in (old habit).  SJ Ron

Same here.  I just don't trust a light. 

I'm surprised so many are starting their bike in gear.  The only time I don't park in neutral is if I'm on an incline.  Then, and only then, will I start it in gear.

What would be other reasons for shutting the bike off in gear?

[dlaws01]

Starting in neutral is safer and less demanding on the starter/ battery. 

[BaggerProud]

I always start in neutral (less stress on bike).  And, I always have the clutch pulled in (old habit).  SJ Ron

x2 

[Skipper]

I always start in neutral (less stress on bike).  And, I always have the clutch pulled in (old habit).  SJ Ron

X2 

[mjb765]

I always start in neutral (less stress on bike).  And, I always have the clutch pulled in (old habit).  SJ Ron

X3

[grc]

Absolutely start in neutral unless you just stalled it in traffic.  As many have already noted, this method puts less stress on the starter and battery.  On bikes that don't have the clutch/starter interlock feature, always starting in neutral is also a safety feature.

Why would you even consider routinely putting the bike in gear before you start it?  Are you parking it in gear for some reason?  

Jerry

[FLHTCUSE7]

Park in first gear so always in gear. If you have a habit to leave it in first gear, just like you would with a stick shift car, that's your parking brake and you run less risk of a fallen over MC. (HD kickstand looks so the risk is not there I a HD but n most others MCs)

Then when time to go mount the MC from the right, ignition on, stand the MC up, kickstand up, clutch in, right foot on the rear brake, start the engine and pull out.

Look at when a motor officer departs, that's what he does. (I got it drilled in to me when I took the MO training so many times so this is how I start every time)

[2k]

Same here.  I just don't trust a light. 

I'm surprised so many are starting their bike in gear.  The only time I don't park in neutral is if I'm on an incline.  Then, and only then, will I start it in gear.

What would be other reasons for shutting the bike off in gear?

And it has to be to steep to hold scooter easily. Neutral 99.5% of the time!!

[Bigfoot16]

x2 

me three

[FLHTCUSE7]

Anyone leave their stick shift car in neutral when parked..............of course not 

[SBB]

Anyone leave their stick shift car in neutral when parked..............of course not 

Apples and oranges.

SBB

[110tHunDer]

Apples and oranges.

SBB

Thanks.  Now I know there's at least one other person on the board who doesn't equate a 2 ton, 4-wheeled cage to a 800 or 900 lb. motorcycle.

[FLHTCUSE7]

So what's the difference in your opinion?

Thanks.  Now I know there's at least one other person on the board who doesn't equate a 2 ton, 4-wheeled cage to a 800 or 900 lb. motorcycle.

[2k]

So what's the difference in your opinion?

Main one I can think of is a parking brake.

[Cvostu]

Neutral for me also.    Less stress.

[FLHTCUSE7]

Main one I can think of is a parking brake.

Which is not what you use when you park a car with a stick. (You might as support to leaving the car in gear, but never just the parking brake)

But with that logic and the MC not having a parking brake and the car does, it should be left in gear. 

[Harley Guy]

Neutral, clutch in, hand on front brake lever - old habit

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Which is not what you use when you park a car with a stick. (You might as support to leaving the car in gear, but never just the parking brake)

But with that logic and the MC not having a parking brake and the car does, it should be left in gear. 

Manual trans car/truck:

In gear, parking brake applied and wheels turned towards the curb. (Old habits from driver training 30+ years ago)

Bike on level ground: either neutral or in gear, jiffy stand limits movement unless the ground is completely smooth.

Bike on incline: In gear, shut off, stand down, set bike on stand.


Always start bike in neutral, with the clutch in regardless of position. Your hand is capable of holding the front brake and pressing the start button at the same time. You never know what hiccup may occur when starting. As others said it takes the load off starter, battery, etc during starting.

Its habitual for me in a car to do the same thing. I've had some hotrods with finiky clutches that it was best to be in neutral and clutch in always.

I still remember being taught to get on the bike from the kickstand side.... the other side seems to work better for larger bikes... the smaller bikes I still get on the stand side.

[mark]

Start in neutral, clutch in. Park it in gear.

[Fired00d]

Engaging clutch is a good idea.

I watched a friend of mine start his bike once while in gear (not sure if he was getting a false neutral light or what ). Good thing he was tall and quick... he was able to run w/the bike when it started long enough to engage clutch w/o dropping bike. After it was over and he got control we both laughed so hard we almost pissed our pants.... one of those things you had to see to appreciate.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Engaging clutch is a good idea.

I watched a friend of mine start his bike once while in gear (not sure if he was getting a false neutral light or what ). Good thing he was tall and quick... he was able to run w/the bike when it started long enough to engage clutch w/o dropping bike. After it was over and he got control we both laughed so hard we almost pissed our pants.... one of those things you had to see to appreciate.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

I had to install an easy-clutch device in my wife's RK, makes the clutch finicky. It lurches sometimes when starting if left in gear with the clutch pulled in. I havent yet gotten her into the full time habit of clutch in, gear in neutral before starting.

d00d's narrative is one of those you can visualize... 

[phato1]

I always leave the bike in first gear when I park it. just makes me feel better about it not rolling after I turn my back.

When starting the bike I always follow the same routine - trans in neutral, clutch in, brakes on - usually foot on rear brake pedal, hit the button.

[CowboyBagger]

I always leave the bike in first gear when I park it. just makes me feel better about it not rolling after I turn my back.

When starting the bike I always follow the same routine - trans in neutral, clutch in, brakes on - usually foot on rear brake pedal, hit the button.

Ditto, X2

First day I got my FLHXSE3, the dealer got it all cleaned up and pulled it out for everyone to look at.   The guy that pulled it up left the bike in neutral about 10 minutes later this 12 yr old kid leaned on the bike and my brand new bike fell over on the show room floor.  Luckily nothing was hurt, but after that I always park locked in first gear.

For starting: neutral, brakes on, clutch in everytime.

Cowboy

[Trapperdog]

Since the HD's have a locking kickstand they are not likely to roll forward even on a moderate slope. Those of us owning multiple bikes of different manufacturers without that locking feature face the reality of them rolling forward and off the kickstand even on a slight slope if in neutral. Hence I always leave my bikes parked in gear unless backed down slope into a spot against a curb. On the flip side, our other bikes have a kickstand starter lockout if in gear and also a clutch switch needing the clutch lever to be depressed to start weather in neutral or not. Since my 07 SE Ultra has neither, I always start all in neutral.

[Glenncarp]

I start in neutral also.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

My '04 did not have the safety switch so one could start the bike in gear. Nice to see HD took a clue from the Japanese and added the safety feature in my '11. If the bike is in gear and the clutch is not pulled in, the bike will not turn over.

Now if the Japanese would take clue from HD and adapt the automatic turn signal shut off, I would see less of their bike making a left turn around the world!!! 

[Trapperdog]

Now if the Japanese would take clue from HD and adapt the automatic turn signal shut off, I would see less of their bike making a left turn around the world!!! 

Ha, that would be me.

[grayghost731]

Start in neutral, clutch in. Park it in gear.

That's what I do ! 

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Ditto, X2

First day I got my FLHXSE3, the dealer got it all cleaned up and pulled it out for everyone to look at.   The guy that pulled it up left the bike in neutral about 10 minutes later this 12 yr old kid leaned on the bike and my brand new bike fell over on the show room floor.  Luckily nothing was hurt, but after that I always park locked in first gear.

For starting: neutral, brakes on, clutch in everytime.

Cowboy

AS the jiffy stand locks into a notch, it sounds like the guy that set the bike in its place did not assure the stand was all the way forward before setting the bike on the stand.

[Para Bellum]

So what's the difference in your opinion?

Good Socratic technique.  I'll pick up the ball and run with it.  No big deal on flat and level, but on inclines:  Car has parking brake and, if auto trans, parking pawl in P(ark) position; also can turn wheels to curb.  Bike has none of those three, but can put in gear like manual trans car. Sure, bike has jiffy stand, and if it's on the peg, there's some measure of safety/stability...and no one ever had incomplete engagement of stand, or HD equipment failure, or kids playing on bike when you're not there, or earthquakes.   

I rather not risk my expensive paint job, tins, levers, grips, etc. by relying on just one method.  So yes, I park in gear anytime I'm not in the garage.

To the original discussion, however, I start in neutral, with clutch in, unless I stall in traffic or am in an unstable position where safety considerations override the benefits of less stress on starter and battery...and I always engage a brake when hitting the starter.

[LovemyCVOgirl]

I always start in neutral (less stress on bike).  And, I always have the clutch pulled in (old habit).  SJ Ron

X2 here.  MC in neutral and clutch pulled in.

[lowflight]

Same here.  I just don't trust a light. 

I'm surprised so many are starting their bike in gear.  The only time I don't park in neutral is if I'm on an incline.  Then, and only then, will I start it in gear.

What would be other reasons for shutting the bike off in gear?

X2

[porthole]

AS the jiffy stand locks into a notch, it sounds like the guy that set the bike in its place did not assure the stand was all the way forward before setting the bike on the stand.

They still move, even in the notch

Since the HD's have a locking kickstand they are not likely to roll forward even on a moderate slope.

Mine has always rolled forward a bit on anything but an uphill surface.

Same here.  I just don't trust a light. 

I'm surprised so many are starting their bike in gear.  The only time I don't park in neutral is if I'm on an incline.  Then, and only then, will I start it in gear.

What would be other reasons for shutting the bike off in gear?

Don't trust my light, although they have have been right "most" of the time.

I have an aftermarket kick stand and it allows more of a roll then then the stock stand. So, I always park in gear, always start in neutral with the clutch pulled.

I can feel the extra drag starting the bike in gear, clutch pulled.

[CVOSE]

I don't understand the discussion. If you pull the clutch the gearbox is not connected to the engine. No shaft turning in the gearbox!
Pulling the clutch is more then enough, no matter which gear is selected.

[bbrown]

I don't understand the discussion. If you pull the clutch the gearbox is not connected to the engine. No shaft turning in the gearbox!
Pulling the clutch is more then enough, no matter which gear is selected.

GOOD POINT

[Fired00d]

I don't understand the discussion. If you pull the clutch the gearbox is not connected to the engine. No shaft turning in the gearbox!
Pulling the clutch is more then enough, no matter which gear is selected.

Try starting your bike both ways and see if you notice any difference.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[grc]

I don't understand the discussion. If you pull the clutch the gearbox is not connected to the engine. No shaft turning in the gearbox!
Pulling the clutch is more then enough, no matter which gear is selected.

Unfortunately that isn't the case, especially on a cold start, due to a phenomenon called clutch drag.

Jerry

[SBB]

Try starting your bike both ways and see if you notice any difference.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

X 2

[charles05663]

I don't understand the discussion. If you pull the clutch the gearbox is not connected to the engine. No shaft turning in the gearbox!
Pulling the clutch is more then enough, no matter which gear is selected.

I know that I am starting to experience the issue with my clutch not fully disengaging (I need to work on the clutch).  I have found that the few times I needed to start in gear my bike would want to move forward.

 

[Trapperdog]

They still move, even in the notch

Mine has always rolled forward a bit on anything but an uphill surface.

Don't trust my light, although they have have been right "most" of the time.

Yes they do move forward a bit, but once the stand locks they stay generally stay put. On bikes without the locking feature they continue forward until the stand folds and the bike falls on its side if not in gear.

[SpeedisLife]

I always start in neutral (less stress on bike).  And, I always have the clutch pulled in (old habit).  SJ Ron

x2

[porthole]

Yes they do move forward a bit, but once the stand locks they stay generally stay put. On bikes without the locking feature they continue forward until the stand folds and the bike falls on its side if not in gear.

Mine moves enough that I got tired of my wife's reaction whenever I got off the bike and she was watching. Gets left in gear all the time now - no roll.

[Trapperdog]

Mine moves enough that I got tired of my wife's reaction whenever I got off the bike and she was watching. Gets left in gear all the time now - no roll.

Ha, been there too. One of the better reasons to leave it in gear. That little yelp they give out scares me more than the bike rolling forward

[porthole]

Ha, been there too. One of the better reasons to leave it in gear. That little yelp they give out scares me more than the bike rolling forward

Yeah - that and when in the truck and she looks up from her phone, screams - puts her feet on the dash and yells "lookout" because she "just" sees the car alongside us that I have been watching for several hundred yards.

[Midnight Rider]

I could always tell a difference between starting in neutral vs starting in gear...could always feel the bike want to move when initially hitting the start button when in gear.  100% of the time, I pull the clutch in. 100% of the time I have two fingers on the front brake lever before hitting the starter button.  Both feet on the ground unless I's starting cold, then I do the same routine from the left side of the bike, put on my helmet/gloves, etc and then get on the bike from the left side.  I cannot remember a single time I have ever started the bike with my right foot on the rear brake pedal...I want both feet on the ground "just in case".  Front brake engaged, start the bike, let the idle speed drop to normal, support with right foot, put it in gear, both feet back on the ground, ride off.

[BaggerProud]

Yeah - that and when in the truck and she looks up from her phone, screams - puts her feet on the dash and yells "lookout" because she "just" sees the car alongside us that I have been watching for several hundred yards.

How come my wife's ridin' in your truck??

[hogdooz]

If you've taken an MSF RiderCourse, you know they always stress leaving the bike in first gear when you shut it off---keeps it from rolling while you dismount and mount again. Then put it in neutral before you start it. And like a previous poster said, I pull the clutch when I hit the starter for two reasons; insures the bike won't move when you hit the starter and breaks the clutch plates loose so it will slide into first much easier. On the old kick start bikes, we always squeezed the clutch and kicked it through to free the clutch plates, still needs to be done on the electric starts.

[Para Bellum]

Unfortunately that isn't the case, especially on a cold start, due to a phenomenon called clutch drag.

Jerry

x2

[SE66]

Just to make a point about starting the motor while not in neutral.  It does put a load on the starter when cranking while in gear.  Just to prove my point,  leave the bike in first gear,  pull in the clutch and try to roll the bike forward,  very hard to do,  this just proves that there are parts that are still slightly engaged which does cause more of a load on the starter when attempting to start while in gear.  Just my thoughts,  sounds reasonable.  HUH

[MIKEYTEE]

Park in 1st gear, start in neutral with clutch in. Old habits hard to break. Never kick start a bike in gear don't ask how I know this.
Mike
 

[Pete7539]

Put the bike on a lift, make sure it's strapped down. Start it up in neutral the rear wheel will spin. You can stop it by hand, but it will rotate on it's own in neutral. Start it in 1st with clutch in, it'll spin faster with more torque to the wheel. I've only done this after detailing and engine wasn't warmed up, but as Jerry said clutch drag.

[FLHTCUSE7]

There is a reason that Motor officers always start in first gear and foot on brake..................................................

[iski]

Park in 1st gear, start in neutral with clutch in. Old habits hard to break. Never kick start a bike in gear don't ask how I know this.
Mike
 

That is the kind of thing you do only once, if you are lucky.   

Watched a bike - not mine - that was started in first gear run up over a curb a time or 2.  Once it gets going, it's like a wild bronco & doesn't want to stop.

[Pete7539]

There is a reason that Motor officers always start in first gear and foot on brake..................................................

I guess it depends on region and training. I know and have ridden with several, none of them do. I'll ask the instructor when I see him in December.

[masiman]

I start in neutral with clutch disengaged.

[FLHTCUSE7]

I guess it depends on region and training. I know and have ridden with several, none of them do. I'll ask the instructor when I see him in December.

What geographic area are you in?

[Pete7539]

Northeast

[FlaHeatWave]

Anyone leave their stick shift car in neutral when parked..............of course not 

I always park the Z06 in neutral unless on a hill, with the handbrake on

[RedMoon]

Put the bike on a lift, make sure it's strapped down. Start it up in neutral the rear wheel will spin. You can stop it by hand, but it will rotate on it's own in neutral. Start it in 1st with clutch in, it'll spin faster with more torque to the wheel. I've only done this after detailing and engine wasn't warmed up, but as Jerry said clutch drag.

Same with my bike  may be because it is a (slip clutch) design ?

[porthole]

There is a reason that Motor officers always start in first gear and foot on brake..................................................

Motos have a different way of life when it comes to the bikes.

[porthole]

There is a reason that Motor officers always start in first gear and foot on brake..................................................

What geographic area are you in?

I just checked with #1 son who is a motor here in Jersey and did the Philly Motor school this past spring.
"Parked in gear - start in neutral"

[Twolanerider]

Absolutely no reason to park in gear; none whatsoever....

[timo482]

 I run a toe, if it's not in gear it will roll away

To

[grc]

Absolutely no reason to park in gear; none whatsoever....

Folks who are too dumb to figure out how to deploy a simple side stand probably shouldn't be entrusted to park your bike.  Just sayin'.

Jerry

[110tHunDer]

Folks who are too dumb to figure out how to deploy a simple side stand probably shouldn't be entrusted to park your bike.  Just sayin'.

Jerry

Yeah.  Besides, who said it wasn't in gear?

[Billy]

Absolutely no reason to park in gear; none whatsoever....

          Parking in gear  as a habit Will keep the bike from rolling on a steep incline Plus if some one is trying to steal the bike it is harder to roll even with clutch in.  Billy

[MrSurly]

I always park the Z06 in neutral unless on a hill, with the handbrake on

Why in the world would you do this? The question applies to the bikes as well.

In the car, the handbrake is insuring that the car stays put. With my bike, the kickstand provides this function...

However, in BOTH cases, the trans in neutral is just, well, DUMB, in my opinion.

You have the option of double indemnity; security of the kickstand or handbrake backed by the security of the trans in gear.
It's free! no effort required to employ this wonderful security/ safety feature! You ride or drive to a stop, deploy the handbrake or jiffystand, kill the engine and walk away (hopefully you downshifted to first as you arrived).
The extra security of the engine/trans/free-wheelchock is totally free; but no, you are going to extra effort to remove this security!?
WHY?
What's the downside that you willfully expend (admittedly little) energy to prevent?

Do you imagine that the transmission is somehow damaged by the practice?
Afraid that you might forget that it's in gear at start up time? That's a different issue and bad habit altogether.

EDIT: BTW, the Z can't be cranked without the clutch being depressed, regardless of gear selection.
What is the problem with parking in gear?

Really fellas, I gotsta know.

EDIT: a fellow here has a '13 Z06. I asked him just now if he parks in neutral with the HB on, he said YES! He couldn't tell me why, either!
(this should be enlightening)

[Pete7539]

I always park the Z06 in neutral unless on a hill, with the handbrake on

I always leave rubicon or 328 in gear with handbrake. I don't trust the brake alone. It's not like a line lock, at least on any vehicles I've owned. The rear discs have a drum and shoe style brake on the inside of them. Mechanical cable puts tension on it to hold. You're vette probably has a better design than my vehicles. I know some are electronic now, but I don't know how it deploys. I would only trust it if it actually applied pressure to the hydraulic brakes and held it, I still would leave it in gear though. Just habit. For automatics I use, I only use e-brake if there is a good in/decline just to put a little less stress on parking pin or whatever you wanna call it in the auto. But that's me

[JoeVibe]

I park my bike in first gear, put it in neutral to start. Let it warm up a little while I'm putting on my helmet and gloves.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Leaving a car in neutral and setting the parking brake....

Ever see a parking brake cable snap and watch the car go rolling down a driveway into a busy street? (True Story)

[FLHTCUSE7]

Leaving a car in neutral and setting the parking brake....

Ever see a parking brake cable snap and watch the car go rolling down a driveway into a busy street? (True Story)

Also parking brakes could  freeze in place in cold weather, had it happened a few times in the Army when some careless soldier applied it by mistake when parking for the night

[Twolanerider]

Leaving a car in neutral and setting the parking brake....

Ever see a parking brake cable snap and watch the car go rolling down a driveway into a busy street? (True Story)

Have had that happen to one of my own.  Fortunately cable broke as the hand brake was being applied.  Always park with a manual trans in gear anyway.  So no lesson "learned" on that one that caused me to begin doing so.  No good reason not to.

[spada84]

I could always tell a difference between starting in neutral vs starting in gear...could always feel the bike want to move when initially hitting the start button when in gear.  100% of the time, I pull the clutch in. 100% of the time I have two fingers on the front brake lever before hitting the starter button.  Both feet on the ground unless I's starting cold, then I do the same routine from the left side of the bike, put on my helmet/gloves, etc and then get on the bike from the left side.  I cannot remember a single time I have ever started the bike with my right foot on the rear brake pedal...I want both feet on the ground "just in case".  Front brake engaged, start the bike, let the idle speed drop to normal, support with right foot, put it in gear, both feet back on the ground, ride off.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to write.  Thanks for doing it for me    I usually park in 1st gear, selecting Neutral before "the drill".

[Twolanerider]

Pretty much exactly what I was going to write.  Thanks for doing it for me    I usually park in 1st gear, selecting Neutral before "the drill".

And a bike that is right at the edge of easy starting, or starting at all, without using compression releases will definitely show you the difference of being in neutral or not.  For some bikes it is the difference between starting or not once heat soaked.

[porthole]

And a bike that is right at the edge of easy starting, or starting at all, without using compression releases will definitely show you the difference of being in neutral or not.  For some bikes it is the difference between starting or not once heat soaked.

And why I now have CR's on the red bike 

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Also parking brakes could  freeze in place in cold weather, had it happened a few times in the Army when some careless soldier applied it by mistake when parking for the night

It doesnt get that cold here...

[MrSurly]

As I asked here:http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=89953.msg1190629#msg1190629

Why would ya park (anything) in neutral?
Waiting with bated breath for proponents to explain the reasoning for this.

[Pete7539]

As I asked here:http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=89953.msg1190629#msg1190629

Why would ya park (anything) in neutral?
Waiting with bated breath for proponents to explain the reasoning for this.

I cannot speak for anyone else. When I did have my garage, , I would park my 328 in gear if brakes had gotten wet. I wouldn't use hand brake because it would lock solid and I literally would drag one of the tires out. Might've cracked a coil spring because of it. Rear end would  lift like a jack was under it. Had to rock back and forth to free. When I did change out rear brakes and rotors I found parking shoe was toast. The metal would stick to the inner disc's drum. After that I would park it in the garage ONLY in neutral with parking brake on. Was completely level and I had it adjusted to the point you could lock the rear with four clicks. That was the only time I have used only the hand brake. Because I knew my garage floor was level. Any other occasions it wasn't unattended. I'll do this is if my girl is in passenger seat, its cold out, engine running, seats are on, and I gotta run into butcher shop or something. She'll sit in car and not complain. Parking lot is level, worst case she'd hop seat and take over.

 Long winded explanations, but I wouldn't argue with anyone over using only the handbrake if it's on their property that they know is level or if you gotta leave engine running to keep your passenger happy.

Nor would I argue with anyone leaving in gear only because I have had an issue with e-brake freezing.

[CVO Aqua-Glider]

I park in gear.  Start in nuetral with foot or hand on brake.

[ridefar]

What about that wonderful CLUNK and lurch forward after jamming a cold bike into first gear from a neutral start (clutch disengaged of course)? What exact mechanical stresses are at work here? Cannot be good for the drive belt or trans innards. I always park in gear and start with bike in gear with clutch depressed as taught in MSF course. Yeah, there will be clutch drag but so what? I always wait for lights in gear, watching in mirrors in case some doosh coming from the rear maybe doesn't see me, so I can escape and evade. Call me a freak, but unless you screwed with the motor and changed something, that starter is plenty robust to start the bike in gear.

[Twolanerider]

Anyone who doesn't think there is more drag starting in gear rather than in neutral even with the clutch pulled in isn't old enough to have ever kick started a big bike .

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Anyone who doesn't think there is more drag starting in gear rather than in neutral even with the clutch pulled in isn't old enough to have ever kick started a big bike .

..or had the bike kick back at their leg...

[porthole]

Anyone who doesn't think there is more drag starting in gear rather than in neutral even with the clutch pulled in isn't old enough to have ever kick started a big bike .

Sportster knee? - Mine still hurts when I think about it.

[djkak]

What about that wonderful CLUNK and lurch forward after jamming a cold bike into first gear from a neutral start (clutch disengaged of course)? What exact mechanical stresses are at work here? Cannot be good for the drive belt or trans innards. I always park in gear and start with bike in gear with clutch depressed as taught in MSF course. Yeah, there will be clutch drag but so what? I always wait for lights in gear, watching in mirrors in case some doosh coming from the rear maybe doesn't see me, so I can escape and evade. Call me a freak, but unless you screwed with the motor and changed something, that starter is plenty robust to start the bike in gear.

Prior to the middle of model year 1984, Big Twin’s used a dry clutch that didn’t support starting in gear, or even running in gear on the jiffy stand with the clutch disengaged.

Unlike the various clutch assemblies used since then, the shell of the dry clutch was allowed to move laterally, from side to side, along the bearing surface of the clutch hub. The only thing keeping the clutch shell on the hub was the clutch plates themselves, and of course the front chain.

On any Big Twin built from 1965 through mid ’84, if you engaged the electric starter while the clutch was disengaged, the starter ring gear, attached to the clutch shell, would move away from the starter drive, sometimes resulting in damage to the ring gear and starter drive. You never wanted to do this with the early laminated ring gear.

If your engine was running in gear, with the clutch disengaged, and you set the machine down on the jiffy stand, the clutch shell would move down the clutch hub and stop against the clutch plates, placing some tension on the clutch pack. If the clutch was getting oily and becoming somewhat sticky, you would pause, maybe just a little before doing that again.

The thought of actually starting a dry clutch Big Twin in gear and on the jiffy stand was something that you didn’t do more than a few times. These clutches didn’t disengage that well under ideal conditions, and when they became oily, which was most of the time, since they were running uncovered in a housing lubricated by an oil mist, the engagement was often somewhat harsh.

The Sportster clutches from ’1971 through mid 1984 also had an aggressive personality. The first time that you dropped one of these machines into gear in the morning, it would “chirp” the tire on your garage floor. After the clutch and transmission fluid warmed up, everything was fine. The experience was often so abrupt that it was sometimes referred to as “morning sickness”.

[iski]

Sportster knee? - Mine still hurts when I think about it.

My first Harley experience, as a teenaged whippersnapper, was trying to kick start a Duoglide.  Got that knee you refer to on the first attempt.  Folks at the garage watching thought it was a lot funnier than I did.  Was sort of different than kickstarting a 175 cc Kawa.    2nd try it started.

[iski]

That's better than I often managed!  

Same here!

Was working in a garage at my first $$ paying job after High School for the magnificent sum of $1 an hour. Worked for 2 brothers - back alley small town garage. Worked on everything from cars to trucks to tractors to motorcycles.  Both brothers had Harleys (an Electra & a Duo Glide) & I used to look at them sort of like a dog looks at a ribeye through a butcher shop window.  One Saturday (worked til noon on Sat.) one of them says  'crank that up & move it over here.'  Was parked outside, they were doing an oil change inside.  So I get up over the kick start with 1 leg - all 155 pounds of me - & give it a sharp kick.  Got about 3/4 of the way down.... Had kick started a few Hondas & Kawas but never a Harley.  Up on a center stand (I think), so when it threw me up & off the bike did not fall over. Much laughter of course. I got up, got over the kick start with BOTH feet & gave it all 155 pounds & a big grunt & the sucker fired right up.  Rode it into the garage.  Damn near broke my leg/knee when it threw me back, but no way was I gonna show that pain to those hyenas.

Through the following years had a variety of Japanese bikes.  Dirt then street.  But I always remembered that big beautiful blue Harley with the big old white seat & shiny chrome & throaty growl & how funny Mr. Rogers looked with his huge ass hanging over that white seat when he roared off for home after a long day.  

That bike was in neutral, BTW.  Why in the pluperfect hell would anybody try to start a bike in gear, anyway?

[Glide-man]

I always start in gear. When you start in neautal and put into 1st gear transmistion clunks like in twolaneriders video shows. Also Billys comment about harder to push when clutch is in and bike in gear.

[grc]

If you break the clutch plates loose and let the input shaft slow down before dumping it into first, you won't get that big clunk and lurch.  You can break the plates loose with a quick blip of the throttle with the clutch lever pulled in.

Btw, since changing my primary to ATF I don't even have to blip the throttle, I just pull the clutch lever at idle, wait about 3 seconds, and slip the shift lever into first.  No clunk, no lurch, no drama.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

If you break the clutch plates loose and let the input shaft slow down before dumping it into first, you won't get that big clunk and lurch.  You can break the plates loose with a quick blip of the throttle with the clutch lever pulled in.

Btw, since changing my primary to ATF I don't even have to blip the throttle, I just pull the clutch lever at idle, wait about 3 seconds, and slip the shift lever into first.  No clunk, no lurch, no drama.

Jerry

T'is true.  Get so used to the improvement that when hopping on someone else's bike for some reason the old clunk we were used to can be a sudden start when no longer expecting it.

[Glide-man]

Interesting, I use Red Line products and clunk is less, however still there. Also bike lurchase when put into gear not much however still when starting in gear it is not there.  Just seams easier to keep in gear and start in gear. Trying to find neautral is a pain. I always value twolanerider and Jerrys advice tho so I might try to change my process.

[Billy]

Interesting, I use Red Line products and clunk is less, however still there. Also bike lurchase when put into gear not much however still when starting in gear it is not there.  Just seams easier to keep in gear and start in gear. Trying to find neautral is a pain. I always value twolanerider and Jerrys advice tho so I might try to change my process.

Finding Neutral  is easier. I stop the bike Turn off the ignition and turn back on the ignition and the trans slips right into neutral.  Billy