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[ESJ JESTER]

Further looking at there site  i found a rather  iffy mention of the media is of 45micron size   and it catches things of 10 microns and less.   well walmart filters do 10  and when i was comparing the standard  HD filter to thier high dollar cartridge one.   the 5 micron with check valve did the best job.  i have had a serious issue with a 10micron vs 5 micron  racor filter to the tune of $2500.   the after the fact guys said... oh yeah  the 5 micron is the way to go!    this sure looks cool  but i would for sure use caution concerning 2 things. 1.  time and mess and cleaning of element? 2. That throat cutting out for the MoCo and warr.   I know  ftw  but     We are not dealing with a aircraft blueprinted design here.  It sure looks cool tho

[Hoist!]

Further looking at there site  i found a rather  iffy mention of the media is of 45micron size   and it catches things of 10 microns and less.   well walmart filters do 10  and when i was comparing the standard  HD filter to thier high dollar cartridge one.   the 5 micron with check valve did the best job.  i have had a serious issue with a 10micron vs 5 micron  racor filter to the tune of $2500.   the after the fact guys said... oh yeah  the 5 micron is the way to go!    this sure looks cool  but i would for sure use caution concerning 2 things. 1.  time and mess and cleaning of element? 2. That throat cutting out for the MoCo and warr.   I know  ftw  but     We are not dealing with a aircraft blueprinted design here.  It sure looks cool tho

I'll try to get some more info and specs out of them. The flow part makes a lot of sense. If a paper filter removes down to lower microns, but bypasses twice as much, isn't that worse? I would think that full 100% filtration has to be better than a finer filter that bypasses half the flow. And what are we supposed to believe happens to the stock filter. Does it really bypass that much? And it does look cool too! Hoist!

[Midnight Rider]

Ok Pete, Howie, et.al.  Next week I'll call both companies and see how many of either product they want to sell at once to offer a real level of discount.  Will post it back here after those conversations. 

Between now and then someone should double check whatever filtrations spec's either device offers.  Make sure it's not a pig in a poke.  I'm relatively comfortable in the Pure Power part just because of the company's history and rep.  But real data is always better.

Let me add something here before everybody gets too hung up on the whole 5 micron thing...a few months ago, I was having some fairly extensive conversations with one of the petroleum engineers from Mobil on another site (a Ducati) site.  One thing he convinced me of was the quality of the Mobil I products, but we also got in a conversation about filters.  Long story short...the claims of some filter companies that their filters catch particles down to 5 microns may or may not be true.  The entire surface area of the filter does NOT catch 5 micron particles.  Even more alarming, and something to really think hard about, is the fact that the size of an oil particle is 8 microns, and that particle is surrounded by the additives which make the oil perform as well as it does.  If a filter is forcing particles of oil through it's 5 micron "holes", it begins STRIPPING the additives from the oil as it moves through the filter.  This guy said the claims by most filter manufacturers of their filters capturing the particles may be, in part, true.  But the entire surface area of the filter does not, and should not.  The filter medium, and the total surface area, plus the bypass setting, are more important considerations in choosing filters.  Also, how it catches the contaminants.  There's a lot more details, but that's the basis for picking a good filter.  

This filter seems, if it performs as claimed, to do all those things well.  The ability to clean the filter and see what comes out is very appealing as well.

My 2 cents....

[Twolanerider]

Further looking at there site  i found a rather  iffy mention of the media is of 45micron size   and it catches things of 10 microns and less.   well walmart filters do 10  and when i was comparing the standard  HD filter to thier high dollar cartridge one.   the 5 micron with check valve did the best job.  i have had a serious issue with a 10micron vs 5 micron  racor filter to the tune of $2500.   the after the fact guys said... oh yeah  the 5 micron is the way to go!    this sure looks cool  but i would for sure use caution concerning 2 things. 1.  time and mess and cleaning of element? 2. That throat cutting out for the MoCo and warr.   I know  ftw  but     We are not dealing with a aircraft blueprinted design here.  It sure looks cool tho

That "cleaning the element" thing is a major drawback for me too Gene.  It's assuaged by not having to buy elements.  But I still don't like the "cleaning" part.

However, if it's really only close to 50 micron effective filtration that's an issue that can't be defeated.  More homework definitely in order.  Lots of aircraft engineers around here.  I'll task someone to look at it tomorrow or Monday.

[ESJ JESTER]

The by-pass is not in the filter its in the housing. more volume thru a larger media would give the performance boost altough i do wonder about how much, thing is we  have the condensation issue with this design engine and those short trips and residual water not yet evaporated is where i see the need for the finer filtration. I am sure it all comes down to the long run effect and really  we are here right now. In the long run I am sure we will all have diamond cut jugs,heads, welded cranks ect.  so FTLR and FTW   cool is cool  and cool is faster .....

[Hoist!]

This is what K&P offers on the subject of filtration. Their take after testing and refernce to 2 links. Don, better get those rocket scientists involved in this decision! Hoist!

www.oilfilterstudy.com
This site has actual test results on various filters. A special point of interest is the disparity in what you may read on the filter packaging for micron sizes, vs. what was actually found to be the size of particles passed by a particular filter.  Even though a filter may be advertised at 10 microns, they can and do pass particles much larger than that.  Hence the value of actual lab testing.

Beware of some of the  other “studies” you may find on the internet where they cut apart some oil filters and make a bunch of assumptions based on what they see inside.  Appearances can be deceiving.  For example, just because a filter has a mile of surface area, one might be tempted to state that it is a much better filter because of the larger surface area.  But if the filter material is bunched so tightly together that the pleats are touching, the filtering capability of the pleats is eliminated and the “effective” surface area has been reduced to just the outside circumference of the filter element.  Flow and filtering capacity is now greatly reduced.  So if you read that a particular filter is good or bad be sure it is backed up with valid testing, not just someone's opinion.

www.bobistheoilguy.com
This site is a great primer for knowing what makes oil work and what happens to it over time.   

Want to do a little of your own testing?  Here is a test you can perform without the expense of paying an independent lab.
To compare the general flow rates of filters:

Procure a set amount of amount of oil (i.e1 gal.  We recommend a single viscosity.  30w works well at around 70 degrees F), the oil filter elements to be tested, a funnel, some sort of oil catch pan and some sort of timer with a second hand.
Note: To test spin on filters you will have to carefully cut the case off of the steel filter assembly to gain access to the filter core. You may also have to do a little work to hold the filter core assembly together with the outside case missing.  Be sure not to disturb the element pleats or internal support tube so that you get a fairly accurate representation of what the filter element flows as manufactured.

With the oil, the filter elements and any other items being used in the test all at the same room temperature, pour the oil through the 1st filter element and time how long it takes the entire amount to flow through filter element

Repeat the process with the subsequent filter elements and compare results (of course you'll want to include one of our reusable oil filters in this test).

[ESJ JESTER]

Sometimes a hint of misinformation is just the catalyst neccessary to sway the masses in thier decisions.  I have been to countless fuel and lube seminars and show and tells. the 4 ball wear tests and heat the testube test. Much neat things there. How they manage to get all those snakes to give up thier oil i dont know.  We always seem to find out way to late what lab or test study's numbers or results have been fudged to achieve the checks in the mail status for performing the tests.  Wix is a filter  co  that many hi grade filters are made by. The big ones who have been around for many years usually have thier numbers correct. I dont know that a 5 micron filter is going to have  a moleculear effect. I do know it stops water from exploding a diesel injection pump in a bad storm way out to sea vs the 10 micron one. the $1000 sea tow bill showed that. i would also withold judgment till we get some man on the street avaition advise.  I have found when HP  is the buzzword in the advert to be cautious.  now a dry sump electric oil system made by Lucas might add some gamble to the equation? Maybe Karen Davidson could come to york with us and we could all discuss our zippers with her and the lube issue too??

[Midnight Rider]

EJS....all I'm doing is repeating what a guy told me who was instrumental in the development of Mobil I VTWIN 20W50, so everybody can take it for what it's worth.

[ESJ JESTER]

EJS....all I'm doing is repeating what a guy told me who was instrumental in the development of Mobil I VTWIN 20W50, so everybody can take it for what it's worth.

TC.  My reference to misinformation was  reguarding the advertisment of the various products. Often a manufacture has a "independent" lab do tests and hence theres proof to back up thier claims. The  mythseekers type of results often get misrepresented as "Nostradamus Quatrains" thus the belief system is established and every repeated story gets added to.  I am sure there something to all of this "media" (pun) .  My personal thoughts reguarding the size difference between the atomic level and the compound level of lubricants in the context of a paper elements ability to remove impurities is a more practical one.  That is stick with what works.  I am sure those filters (all of them)  will trap the big hunks of rocker box material the valve retainer interference is chunking off.  No negativity toward your post was intended and if I sounded as such i appoligize. I am just aware of the moisture damage inside these types of engines and am looking at this from that perspective. I would only like to learn the real skinny of it all for the good of the many. 

[Midnight Rider]

TC.  My reference to misinformation was  reguarding the advertisment of the various products. Often a manufacture has a "independent" lab do tests and hence theres proof to back up thier claims. The  mythseekers type of results often get misrepresented as "Nostradamus Quatrains" thus the belief system is established and every repeated story gets added to.  I am sure there something to all of this "media" (pun) .  My personal thoughts reguarding the size difference between the atomic level and the compound level of lubricants in the context of a paper elements ability to remove impurities is a more practical one.  That is stick with what works.  I am sure those filters (all of them)  will trap the big hunks of rocker box material the valve retainer interference is chunking off.  No negativity toward your post was intended and if I sounded as such i appoligize. I am just aware of the moisture damage inside these types of engines and am looking at this from that perspective. I would only like to learn the real skinny of it all for the good of the many. 

No offense taken at all...it's a collective mind here, so the more information that gets thrown out there, the better off we all are.  Discovering the truth, and the best products for the application is what it's all about, then it's all about a personal choice of what works best for the individual.

[Twolanerider]

If someone tells me these things can unhook bra straps too then I'm buying an extra one.

[SCRM-R]

Here is another one from Scotts Performance for $129.00 retail.  Looks just like the one from K & P, but I think that they only offer it in polished aluminum...no chrome (rats).  http://www.scottsperformance.com/products.php?PartType=3&Bike=HarleyDavidson&PHPSESSID=ccc9ccb288aed529c2fa2ad2bb56cddb

[Jester_Red07]

Very Interesting!
  So do these washable filters let water pass? Humm?
Is some one going to try them?

[ESJ JESTER]

Boy  some of the stuff  thats advertised  out there is scary.  they say this:What is a Micron?
A micron is one thousandth of a millimeter. That's about .00003937 inches. Fine sand can be as small as 62 microns thick. Our filter will not allow any particle over 35 microns to pass through this filter, that's some pretty small stuff that's being caught.
     They then say a white blood cel is 35 microns....??  another ...
 The micron, officially obsolete as a term of measurement, is sometimes used by microchip and wiring manufacturers in place of micrometer, one-millionth of a meter.

 and...
A human hair is said to be about 50 micrometers wide.          it will pass water  yes!

[TCinVA]

In the long run I am sure we will all have diamond cut jugs,heads, welded cranks ect.  so FTLR and FTW   cool is cool  and cool is faster .....

Hey, wait a minute.  Nobody told me I had to get my "crank welded" ...
TC