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[Jbbrown73]

I can't say enough how good of an experience this has been using the TTS Mastertune with the help of Doc from HD MD Tuning (site user Doc 1).  Without his guidance and help I could not have done this nearly as easy.  I bought the unit from him and am so glad I did.  He guided me through the set up of the Mastertune and Vtune programs, and with his tweaking from the data I collected from riding he has my bike tuned in perfectly from 900 miles away.  It is running great, the tbw response is day and night better.  The bike is running cool and sounds great.  I can't say enough about Doc's knowledge and and his recommendations were spot on.  I took his advice on intake and exhaust and the power comes in just the way I like it.  I could not be happier. 

Doc, thanks again!  Anyone else reading this that is thinking of buying a power commander, super sert or something else; I just ask you give Doc a call and talk to him before you make a decision.  You will not regret it.

I LOVE MY SERK!!!!!!

[sportygordy]

I had an similar good experience with DOC too. I purchased Master Tune from him several months ago. He helped with a base map for my 131 inch Jim's motor and gave me some tuning suggestions, which ended an awesome running 131 Inch. I originally planned to run the base map until break in then Dyna Tune for a final. The bike is running so good, I'm going to leave it right were it is. Although i am curious what I'm getting for HP and TQ.

[Brinks]

So you were able to do the whole setup with out a dyno run, how cool is that!!!  How much total time did you have in the dial in? 

[LarryB]

yes please give us more info

[Jbbrown73]

Here's a rough idea of how long it took:

1.) Loading software on computer and getting online updates - 1 hour

2.) Reading all of the information from the help files then reading Doc's cheat sheet (he highly recommended this, just reading the cheat sheet makes no sense unless you understand the software) - 1 hours

3.) Doing the actual mapping, including saving the stock map, making the manual software changes according to the cheat sheet and loading the base map in the ecm - 1/2 hour

4.) At this point I put the laptop in a backpack and took a ride with the laptop connected to the bike, about 20 miles through town and around some back roads and 5 miles or so on highway - 45 minutes

However, I made a mistake here and had to do this twice.  I didn't go into the power settings and change my laptop to not go to sleep when I closed the lid.  I also had to change the battery inactivity time out to 1 hour.  Since i didn't do this the 1st time, the computer went to sleep and stopped the program, no data collected.  But once I made the power setting changes, the program worked flawlessly just as described in Doc's cheat sheet.

5.) Come back and run the vtune program that combines the base map with the data collected, then load it into the bike ecm - 1/2 hour

6.) Repeat the ride to collect more data - 45 minutes

7.) Following the cheat sheet, use the vtune program to create your final map.  There is some more manual configuration that the cheat sheet walks you through at this point to get the final map done.  It takes a little patience, but not difficult.  Then loaded the final map on the bike. - 2 hours

8.) I took this a step further, and sent both data files and the final map to Doc.  He was able to tweak it some more and sent it back to me and I loaded it to the ecm. - 15 minutes

So, total time involved about 6 hours, give or take.  That includes 2 rides of about 30-40 minutes each.  I really took my time and read and re-read to make sure I didn't miss a step or make any mistakes.  There's a lot of parameters in this software you touch, but the software is very friendly.  At no point did I not understand the directions according to Doc's cheat sheet, it is very well done.  The help files are fabulous, they really explain what each thing does, not just how to set it. 

Best of all, I did not have to travel hundreds of miles or pay hundreds of dollars for a dyno.  If you're wanting every last little bit of horsepower a dyno I am sure would be better.  I was happy with stock power.  I was mostly looking to add pipes, a stage 1 breather and cure the reliability, lean condition heat issue.  What i got far exceeded my expectations. 

[BayouBiker]

how much $$ for the consultation & assistance time from Doc?

The TTS price itself seems very reasonable...

[Twolanerider]

If you're wanting every last little bit of horsepower a dyno I am sure would be better. 

Don't count on that.  Many, certainly a majority of those whose I've witnessed, don't really dial it in.  Some are good enough to get close; which sounds like what you're expecting out of your system.  And too many don't even get close.  Very very few really dial one in to take full and effective advantage of what you've got though.  If you don't have a very good tuner within an easy distance and this system does as well as you suggest with the ease and effective assistance you describe it sounds like a very viable option to consider.

[Jbbrown73]

how much $$ for the consultation & assistance time from Doc?

The TTS price itself seems very reasonable...

I bought it from him, he didn't charge me anything for his time.  I haven't taken much of his time, 2 phone calls, about half a dozen emails, and he was able to tweak my map quickly.  he knows this software well, so what would take me lots of time he does in minutes.

[BayouBiker]

Thanks for the info.
I was about to replace my Zippers TMAT for a SERT next week.

I think I'll call Doc 1st thing Fri (if he's open) before I finalize my decision...

[eddfive]

I have to agree with Twolanerider.  I dynoed a bike this week with TTS.  The bike was not running badly it just was not dialed in correctly.  The bike had been VTUNED a few times.  I am not sure of the competance of the owner with VTUNE but he was riding it.  I was anxious to see how well the VTUNE was working.  Let me just say that the narrow band sensors are just switches for on/off.  They are also susceptable to change with exhaust Temperature change.  When I took my first run of data with the AFR table at 13.2, I was suprised how much variation there was in the data.  I am assuming that if the VTUNE dialed in the VE tables at 14.6 and you set the AFR table to 13.2, the ECU should move the VE values to 13.2 or at least close.  See the attached live AFR data for front and rear cylinders.  I am not bashing the TTS product as the bike tuned out very well and the customer is happy with the results.  The TTS product worked very well in conjunction with dyno tuning.  When I test rode the bike after I was done it was really smooth. 

[gg]

Eddfive, so you're saying that a person who uses the TTS product may still want to find them self a competent dyno tuner to complete this activity? Thanks

[Doc 1]

I have to agree with Twolanerider.  I dynoed a bike this week with TTS.  The bike was not running badly it just was not dialed in correctly.  The bike had been VTUNED a few times.  I am not sure of the competance of the owner with VTUNE but he was riding it.  I was anxious to see how well the VTUNE was working.  Let me just say that the narrow band sensors are just switches for on/off.  They are also susceptable to change with exhaust Temperature change.  When I took my first run of data with the AFR table at 13.2, I was suprised how much variation there was in the data.  I am assuming that if the VTUNE dialed in the VE tables at 14.6 and you set the AFR table to 13.2, the ECU should move the VE values to 13.2 or at least close.  See the attached live AFR data for front and rear cylinders.  I am not bashing the TTS product as the bike tuned out very well and the customer is happy with the results.  The TTS product worked very well in conjunction with dyno tuning.  When I test rode the bike after I was done it was really smooth. 

I didn't look at your afr data because there is a variable your not looking at......the V-Tune sets the VE tables according to the stock 02 sensors, if there is a lazy sensor or even a bad sensor there lies a problem. The tune is only as good as the 02 sensors accuracy is so my question to you is when was the last time you calibrated your 02 sensor on your Dyno? When I go to dealers and train them on EFI tuning I take with me a new wide band sensor to test it against the one in their dyno.....you would be surprised how many times I see AFR ratios off by .5 to 2.0. My point is your only as good as your 02 sensor, the TTS Data Master has the information and a data stream for testing the 02 sensor activity and a picture of what the data activity should look like....this should be done before any tuning take place (however I didn't include this information in the outline I made).
The other point you might not be aware of is when V-Tune is being used you have to set your Closed Loop Bias Voltage to the targeted AFR. So lets say the CLBV is set at 780mv....this sets the AFR target for V-Tuning at 14.3 or 14.4....even though the AFR table shows 14.6 your 02 sensors are setting the AFR at 14.3 or so.....this off set AFR carrys over to the open loop and makes the AFR .2 to .3 richer there too.
Point being unless you calibrate your 02 sensor and the tuner of the bike did a 02 sensor activity test and if you don't know what the CLB table is set at your test you posted is worthless information or at least miss read information. 02 sensors are the weak link in tuning and I have found over the years that 02 sensors can last 50,000 hours or 1 hour....they MUST be calibrated and checked very often. As a rule I replace the wide band sensor in the dyno room every 20 to 30 tune ups and test the accuracy of the sensor every 5 tune ups....this way I know I the tune is with in .1 to .2 AFR of my target.
The TTS has the best base maps of any of the tuners out there today, it is the best tuning tool I've ever seen and the V-Tune program works great, will it beat a good dyno tune.....not hardly but it does tune VERY well where the rider rides at.  If the rider didn't get enough cells tuned in his data ride then the AFR will be all over the place also but where he did get enough hits the AFR should be dead on. The more cells you hit the better or wider the tune is....this is why you can't beat the dyno tune because having control of Throttle Position and Rpm I'm (you ) are able to hit every cell the bike can possibly run in....this is a superior tune.
Doc

[Admiral]

I didn't look at your afr data because there is a variable your not looking at......the V-Tune sets the VE tables according to the stock 02 sensors, if there is a lazy sensor or even a bad sensor there lies a problem. The tune is only as good as the 02 sensors accuracy is so my question to you is when was the last time you calibrated your 02 sensor on your Dyno? When I go to dealers and train them on EFI tuning I take with me a new wide band sensor to test it against the one in their dyno.....you would be surprised how many times I see AFR ratios off by .5 to 2.0. My point is your only as good as your 02 sensor, the TTS Data Master has the information and a data stream for testing the 02 sensor activity and a picture of what the data activity should look like....this should be done before any tuning take place (however I didn't include this information in the outline I made).
The other point you might not be aware of is when V-Tune is being used you have to set your Closed Loop Bias Voltage to the targeted AFR. So lets say the CLBV is set at 780mv....this sets the AFR target for V-Tuning at 14.3 or 14.4....even though the AFR table shows 14.6 your 02 sensors are setting the AFR at 14.3 or so.....this off set AFR carrys over to the open loop and makes the AFR .2 to .3 richer there too.
Point being unless you calibrate your 02 sensor and the tuner of the bike did a 02 sensor activity test and if you don't know what the CLB table is set at your test you posted is worthless information or at least miss read information. 02 sensors are the weak link in tuning and I have found over the years that 02 sensors can last 50,000 hours or 1 hour....they MUST be calibrated and checked very often. As a rule I replace the wide band sensor in the dyno room every 20 to 30 tune ups and test the accuracy of the sensor every 5 tune ups....this way I know I the tune is with in .1 to .2 AFR of my target.
The TTS has the best base maps of any of the tuners out there today, it is the best tuning tool I've ever seen and the V-Tune program works great, will it beat a good dyno tune.....not hardly but it does tune VERY well where the rider rides at.  If the rider didn't get enough cells tuned in his data ride then the AFR will be all over the place also but where he did get enough hits the AFR should be dead on. The more cells you hit the better or wider the tune is....this is why you can't beat the dyno tune because having control of Throttle Position and Rpm I'm (you ) are able to hit every cell the bike can possibly run in....this is a superior tune.
Doc

So tell us Doc how close is Jbbrown73 bike to a setup done on the DYNO?
I really don't understand all the acronyms you are refering too but am curious as to weather or not his would be ok like it is or should he put it on a dyno to get more out of it.

[HDDOCFL]

I would really like to get my bike done with the master tune, but my dealer and two others I have talked to say it will void my warrinty. Is there anyway the dealer can tell if this master tune was installed and is it removeable with out leaving footprints for the dealer to find?  Thanks Doc

[LarryB]

Ya, what he said