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[grc]

Hey All,
 

[Twolanerider]

John,
Thanks very much for the explanation.

[jdk20723]

Hi Jerry,

Yes, all other sensors are used for input.  The T-Max ECM has its own baro sensor within the ECM.  The only factory sensor we do not use is the MAP sensor, due to the erratic impulses from the V-Twin engine.

The ThunderMax's look-up table has blocks for every 256 rpm x every 1.6 degrees of throttle blade movement for a total of over 1,900 points of adjustment.  With this much resolution, no MAP sensor is required or needed.

Thanks, JK

[jdk20723]

TLR,
I feel your pain!  As a lifelong rider (junkie), we have a saying around here that you don't spend any less on your bike(s) because your work at a bike shop, you just buy more!

In many cases of whether the justification to spend is the question, the answer has to be more questions.  Are you happy with the way your bike runs?  Does it start easily, warm up correctly, cruise without surging, decel without popping, accelerate smoothly?  Do you plan on making future modifications?  Do you have a good dyno tuner that can give you your money's worth on future modifications?

If so, maybe you don't need this product.  If not, there may be real advantages to this system.  I see by the dyno sheet you provided, your "hypothetical" bike was tuned by John Golden, a respected tuner with a good grip on what he does.  There are many, many bikes running down the road without this advantage.  Our product offers our engineering department built in, at a cost slightly more than the Power Commander (without dyno tuning), and slightly less than the Race Tuner (married to 1 ECM, without dyno tuning).  

Power is made by the physical parts chosen for the engine.  A tuning devise will let the engine make as much power as it physically can (or keep it from making it!).  Will it make more power?  Depends on how sharp the current tune is.  Will the drivability be better?  Absolutely, for reasons I stated before and you seem to agree with.  

[bgcolor=Yellow]That question is that even though your product is "better" how much better is it (in real world application and regular day to day riding).  If this hypothetical rider with a username of Twolanerider were to consider spending $400.00 plus for your ECM what gains should he expect to justify that expense.     [/bgcolor]

Only way to answer that question is to try it.....you'd have 30 days to make up your mind (sorry, the sales hat just dropped on my head).  All you have to do is make the call!  Thanks, JK

[Twolanerider]

Thanks John.  I do really appreciate your time.  And you're right in that I'm really lucky to have John Golden live less than a mile from my house (when he's not out on the road).  Just knowing your tuning is going to be good and that you don't have to go chasing someplace to get it done makes the whole process much easier.

I think what I'm going to have to do is find a rally site where you're working sometime.  Hopefully a rally site where Golden or someone else with a portable tub is working too.  Then I can ride the bike a couple of days for the most important seat of the pants measure and still get a before and after numeric comparison before deciding to roll back your way to change back to stock or not.

[Unbalanced]

JDK (John),

I have only one concern.   I made the call and I am still waiting.  When I spoke to Pete in your office over 4 weeks then I called back since I hadnt heard back from him then a week went by and I called again and he finally called me back to say he was still looking for a tuner in central florida area.  After several phone calls made by me I am still waiting to hear after he said you have people to tune this ECM.   This scares me.   I realize this unit is new, but when someone tells me there are people to tune this unit in my area  and yet he cant find one or return my calls.

The reason I need/want a tuner is I am not going to be stuck because no map is currently available or taking pot shots at getting it right.  I don't want close or sorta mapped.  

What makes this worse is if there is no one he could call me say hey we dont have anyone at this time I made a mistake, not what I want to hear but stand up business practice, but the worse part is to just ignore me and not even call me back.   I don't feel I should have to beg you guys to help me to buy your products.   Honest mistakes happen , but to not respond at all is bull.

I even went as far as suggesting a dyno guy that could and was willing to work with you guys here in the Central Florida Area and is a Harley Certified mechanic.   If nothing else I figured someone would have called me to get in contact with this dyno guy.  Yet as of today still no response from Pete.   I have your fuel injection system on my RoadKing and was interested in trying the new ECM.  

The gentleman that has the dyno is Jim from Bragging Rights.   It is a DynoJet 250i brand new unit this dyno is also mobile.   I spoke with him and he said to have you guys call him.  His number is 352-536-3631.

I plan on being at Biketoberfest are you guys going to be there this year?

Seems like it would be a pretty easy thing to do put 2 good things together and make people happy and some money in the process.

[JimsSEEG]

I also would be interested in finding a tuner experienced or willing to get experienced in Texas (or even the surrouning states or willing to travel to FL if Unbalanced finds someone willing to play). In the last week, I have found 2 HD dealers that have hired "a new guy" that is trained in SERT, but so far they have yet to put a dyno sheet on the wall..

Jim

[Unbalanced]

Jim,

Jim @ Bragging Rights is good with RaceTuner and with Power Commander no issues there just looking for someone who Zippers endorses for thier Thundermax.

[JimsSEEG]

I probably worded that badly - something about multi-tasking...  Saw your mention of Jim after I hit the enter key...

I had been following the Thundermax discussions and it looks really promising if you have a tuner in a reasonable distance. It would be interesting to see someone with SERT / PC experience use the Thundermax and see what they say.

Jim

[jdk20723]

Unbalanced & Jim,
(and anyone else interested)

Please email me the particulars on your bikes so I can check map availability.

I'll need:

Year and model
Engine size
Exhaust system
Air cleaner
Any other changes from stock including cams, pistons, headwork, etc.

Please include name, address & daytime phone number.  We'll send you the latest info available and contact you with any help we can offer.
Send to      john.k@zippersperformance.com

I'll do what I can to get you connected with a source that should be able to help you.  As for Daytona, we're still a bit up in the air there, but if we do it, we'll be at the new Daytona H-D location, most likely.  

Unbalanced, I apologize for the lack of response from Pete.  He does most of the incoming web communication and generally gets good marks for follow-up from his customers.  Thanks for your patience, and send me the info.  

Thanks all, JK

[JimsSEEG]

John (JDK)

I reread one of your posts thet mentioed you had maps for CVOs. Was wondering if you have a map for an 05 CVO, SE air filter, and Vand H true duals and oval slip-ons.

My problem is a tuner. Closest tuner for me is in Dallas - 300 miles. So starting with a solid base map definitely help in the decsion.

Great explanation on the TM systen...

Jim

[Unbalanced]

Jim,

That was the idea of suggesting someone since they have offered no one.   He is a great guy and very straight forward which is something I appreciate.   Everyone I have sent to him has been extremely pleased with his work.

We shall see what happens next.

-harry

[syclone]

Three basic types of EFI systems guys...Not counting what I call sub-types reguarding fuel delivey types like sequential or batch fire.

[Unbalanced]

 JDK20723,

I have sent the information you requested for all 3 bikes.   I forgot to add to it though to please let me know who the name of the  tuner you guys are suggesting that we should use in the Central Florida Area for the Thundermax ECM.

Thanks again,

-harry

[JimsSEEG]

Syclone -

Agree with all you said. if this were a small block chevy with a TPI, I would make a couple of uns on the dyno and then reflash some chips, but - my problem (unlike Unbalanced's) is a good tuner, that can make mods and be on the positive side at the end of the session. Nearest tuner to me is 300 milkes and he only does Power Commander - been that route. Wanted to go SERT this time, but every HD shop within a 300 mile radius either has a new tuner or says "just drop it off and we'll call you." and won't show any past dyno sheets. That's not working for me since I have some specifics won what I want and I know what I  want done on the "trade-off" items.

For me, I'm tryiing to compensate for a lack of tuner. Got another line on one this morning, but he's in FL. So I'll keep looking until I find a tuner inther in TX, or I'll go out of state.

Jim