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[FUZZNUTS]

Yep, the motor puts out a little over 95 hp, tourqe I would have to look at the dyno sheet. But thats plenty for me. The reason that I'm putting in a different cam was for the pronounced sound. I know, sounds crazy but thats what I did..................Fuzz  

[FUZZNUTS]

Well, some believe the Torrington is a better bearing to replace the stock one HD supplies.  So, you are going to go back with stock parts (cams/lifters/etc.)?   Probably easier that way if the HD shop is doing the work......they would probably have to order the Torrington bearings from Drag or someone.   spyder

I'll ask when I take the bike over today.................Fuzz

[iski]

Azzholes and opinions......everyone has one.....so being an....er having an opinion

Here is my take....

there were 2 manufactures of the shoes:
     one good
     one not so good
The shoes are injection molded and in that process air is injected into the mix. Too much air makes the shoe too porous, thus the shoe wears our faster than one not as porous.

The chain is polished while the motor is running from the contact with the shoe. This wearing is minute. A chain would never be worn out from contact with the shoes, during the lifetime of the motor...ie...100,000 miles.

The next part in the equation is how the shoe is held in contact with the chain. There are 2 ways from the MOCO
     1-spring
     2-hydraulic

1- Spring holds a steady tension on the chain. It will have both positive and negative movement with the chain. With the spring, not all springs are created equal and one that is tighter than the other will put more pressure on the chain than a lighter spring.

2- Hydraulic tensioners keep positive tension on the chain at all times. If there is any negative movement with the chain, the hydraulic tensioner will take up the slack and not remove the new tension that it has created. With this 2 things will happen.
     1- the shoe will wear out prematurely
     2- the chain will stretch from too much pressure on it. This is why companies like Baker recommend use of the old spring tensioner in the primary with their DD-6 transmission.

Now will the new hydraulic tensioner last longer than the spring types.....it is all relevant with the composition of the material the shoe is made with.

Why didn't the MOCO make a new shoe for the old spring tensioner......because most of us are gullible enough to spend a grand on the new set-up instead of installing new shoes that is up- selling. It is what the MOCO instills in their stores. That may be wrong....they preach it!

The other option....NOT HARLEY.... is gear drives:
    Gear drives are only as good as who installed them, and because not all parts are created equal 3 major things need to be checked
          Check crank run out.....crank needs to be under 15 thousands for proper gear and oil pump wear
          Gear lash.....different diameter gears are produced to keep lash correct
          Gear alignment.....shims kits are available to make sure that the gears are aligned properly.
Many installers of gear drives don't take the time to check these things. I hate to say it, but there are a ton of parts changers out there.
     Parts do wear and that is why even gear drives should be checked regularly, just like shoes.

Good opinion.  Do you think the type/style of cam chain could also have something to do with the premature wear on these tensioners?

[hogasm]

Good opinion.  Do you think the type/style of cam chain could also have something to do with the premature wear on these tensioners?

Iski I don't know how many chains are produced before tolerances are checked. If 1000 are done then the 950th not be as close as the first one will, and how close does the the subcontractor of the chains check them. As seen with many H-D parts produced for the twin cam, quality has not been at the top of the list.

Once a tensioner becomes groved or conformed to the chain, wear will become minimal unless the chain has a bur or grove that will cause premature wear on the shoe.

Until lomeone proves differently, I still believe that the main problem is not with the chain but with the porosity of the shoe and the different tensions of the spring.

[iski]

Makes sense to me, Hogasm.  Oodd that some failed so quickly & others - like my 02 RK - would have been good to 100k.

[spydglide]

Makes sense to me, Hogasm.  Oodd that some failed so quickly & others - like my 02 RK - would have been good to 100k.

Just another of the 'opinion topics' like motor oil and waxes.  har!  spyder

[Mr D]

My 06 CUSE has 12k mi on the engine, Runs great. I realize with the oem tensioners i'm riding a time bomb and only a matter of time, reading the post' some rider's tensioners are junk at 10k and some are still riding at 30k plus ? What procedure would you all rec. of having the life left of the stock tensioners ? I understand when they let go it can and will cause further headache. Thanks for your advice in advance and ride safe 

[jug-head]

 I replaced the tensioners on a Stock 2002 FXD with 19,500 miles on it. Its a used bike so I have no history on it. Outer tensioner had .020 even side to side wear, with multiple little chunks gone out of and it had a burned appearance. But it still would have gone another 20k maybe.

The back side of the outer timing chain still had the tool marks from the punch press from when it was manufactured. I wonder if this caused the burned appearance of the shoe?


Inner tensioner had .015 to .035 wear. There was much more wear on the spring side of the tensioner. The shoe had a smooth wear pattern, with the imprint of the chain links clearly visible.

I had to take the cam plate to work to press the cams and  bearings out.  Since I'd left my tensioner tool at home, I used a screw driver to pry the tensioner back so I could pull the pin out. The side plate popped off and the damn thing flew apart. Glad it didn't do that while inside a running motor. I had a small audience when that happened. I'll hear about that in the future I'm sure. It does make me wonder if I'd damaged it while prying it up so I could inspect it while it was in the engine? Something to worry about if you use the screw driver and mirror trick to check the wear on the inner tensioner.

I got to thinking about what ISKI posted about variations in the hardness of the plastic shoes. So I borrowed a spring loaded center punch from one of the machinist and used it to test the hardness of the shoes. The outer shoe was definitely easier to punch a dent in. So there is a difference of the plastic between the 2 shoes.

[porthole]

Many have rough enough edges that they would cut thru anything.

Anything  ?
Anything ?

They used a chain to cut up the Kursk

[porthole]

Had missed that earlier.  Definitely so.  And while the cams are out might as well put in the better cam bearings as they're too inexpensive not to use when you've gone to all that trouble.

These bearings are so cheap there is no reason they are not installed from the moco. My dealer does not even stock the standard bearing.

[TallyClassic]

After getting this thread all wound up on the new plate, I got my cover off last week and the shoes were actually pretty good.  Not even close to halfway thru the shoe.  Guess Id estimate it as the depth of the thickness of a credit card.

Sigh of relief and on to other chrome goodies   

[FUZZNUTS]

I requested to have all the parts saved so I can get a good look at them. Got the box at home. Been pretty busy, I'll take a look at the stuff this weekend. I'll take a few pics and post them, to show the wear. The service writer told me I probably could have got another 20,000 out of them. I pick up the bike on Sat........Fuzz

[porthole]

We had a 20% night at my dealer last night, that and since it is an "urban blight" area means sales tax is 1/2 normal. Good deal.

Ordered SE lifters, push rods, and many more misc parts including the new SE plate, tensioner and pump kit.

Two nights ago I pulled the cams to check everything (in anticipation of the 20% night).

Crank run out is .002-.004. Every one says no gear drives (not quite everyone) 

So I have all the stuff needed to do the replacement EXCEPT for cams!

What cams do I use now?

I called a Yuell Bros. yesterday and talked to Brad Y. They don't have now or in the works a chain drive version of the YB-13 cam.

This was my cam of choice after the success with LtBawb's bike last summer.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=25698.0;all

Brad also told me that I would fine with the .002-.004 run out and gear drives 

The new hydraulic kit is ordered, and whatever else was not in stock.


So what cam now

[FUZZNUTS]

20% is pretty good, our dealer had a 10% off total price, parts and labor. And whatever you spend you get 10% in LAP money. Got to spend it in thier store. 

[spydglide]

We had a 20% night at my dealer last night, that and since it is an "urban blight" area means sales tax is 1/2 normal. Good deal.

Ordered SE lifters, push rods, and many more misc parts including the new SE plate, tensioner and pump kit.

Two nights ago I pulled the cams to check everything (in anticipation of the 20% night).

Crank run out is .002-.004. Every one says no gear drives (not quite everyone) 

So I have all the stuff needed to do the replacement EXCEPT for cams!

What cams do I use now?

I called a Yuell Bros. yesterday and talked to Brad Y. They don't have now or in the works a chain drive version of the YB-13 cam.

This was my cam of choice after the success with LtBawb's bike last summer.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=25698.0;all

Brad also told me that I would fine with the .002-.004 run out and gear drives 

The new hydraulic kit is ordered, and whatever else was not in stock.


So what cam now

You want to chit-can the stock cams?    spyder