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[grc]

He speaks the truth! Having cut one open and looked at the construction method, I would never skimp on the oil filter. You can get a chrome Wix (NAPA) Filter that is well constructed, I personally use K&N, very highly rated, uses a consistant bypass spring. If I can locate the article/test on different motorcycle filters, I'll post it.....

He may speak the truth with regard to the construction method, but he speaketh with forked tongue when it comes to his recommendations.  After talking about the importance of actual performance data and ASTM testing standards, he pronounces ALL Fram filters, including those made for other companies and those made with different internal processes, unnacceptable, without one piece of performance data supporting his opinion.  And make no mistake, it's just an opinion, based on ignorance of actual industry construction methods and processes.  "Oh golly gosh, I don't want no cardboard in my engine".  Well, in about 25 years of using Fram filters (air and oil) in my four wheeled vehicles and personally changing the oil, I've never encountered bits of cardboard in my oil, and I've never experienced oil related failures or unusual wear of any kind.  And I'm betting I'm only one of many tens of millions out there in the real world with that same experience.  BTW, if you don't want any paper or cardboard in your engine, I suggest you get rid of that paper air filter Harley uses, and you may want to take a close look at some of the gaskets as well, and oh yeah, that treated paper in all those various brands of oil filters.

Folks need to use just a little not-so-common sense and realize that products that use only the highest cost materials and processes in their manufacture aren't going to be cost competitive.  It is the job of engineers these days to achieve a stated performance level AND do so without breaking the bank.  If a sealed piece of heavy cardboard works to support the filter media in the cannister and separate the inner and outer surfaces of the filter media (keep the dirty oil on the dirty side), and testing confirms the results, then the fact that some non-wrench, non-automotive engineer saw a picture on some forum showing a cardboard endcap versus a metal endcap and decided cardboard is no good doesn't mean diddly squat.  (He claims to be an electrical engineer, wonder what he thinks about that cheap paper inside a capacitor?)

I love how some folks will take what one person claims on a web forum or blog and treat it as gospel, without even thinking about what ulterior motives that person might have for his "expert" opinion.  Any time someone praises one product unconditionally and dumps all over another, and doesn't supply proven facts and performance data to support his opinions, I tend to be a little suspicious.  Kind of like when the bike mags do an article on the latest whiz bang magical performance upgrade and fall all over themselves praising it, but only after the manufacturer buys at least one full page ad in the magazine, preferably two or more.  

If you want to obsess over something that's a little more likely to affect the long term durability of your engine, try obsessing over the bypass settings.  Having the oil completely bypass the filter media on a regular basis, like with the earlier 10 micron Harley filters, is much more common than a one in ten million piece of cardboard floating around.

Jerry

[yellowhog]

That's the same one is listed early on...thanks though.

[UFO_HOG]

He may speak the truth with regard to the construction method, but he speaketh with forked tongue when it comes to his recommendations.  After talking about the importance of actual performance data and ASTM testing standards, he pronounces ALL Fram filters, including those made for other companies and those made with different internal processes, unnacceptable, without one piece of performance data supporting his opinion.  And make no mistake, it's just an opinion, based on ignorance of actual industry construction methods and processes.  "Oh golly gosh, I don't want no cardboard in my engine".  Well, in about 25 years of using Fram filters (air and oil) in my four wheeled vehicles and personally changing the oil, I've never encountered bits of cardboard in my oil, and I've never experienced oil related failures or unusual wear of any kind.  And I'm betting I'm only one of many tens of millions out there in the real world with that same experience.  BTW, if you don't want any paper or cardboard in your engine, I suggest you get rid of that paper air filter Harley uses, and you may want to take a close look at some of the gaskets as well, and oh yeah, that treated paper in all those various brands of oil filters.

Folks need to use just a little not-so-common sense and realize that products that use only the highest cost materials and processes in their manufacture aren't going to be cost competitive.  It is the job of engineers these days to achieve a stated performance level AND do so without breaking the bank.  If a sealed piece of heavy cardboard works to support the filter media in the cannister and separate the inner and outer surfaces of the filter media (keep the dirty oil on the dirty side), and testing confirms the results, then the fact that some non-wrench, non-automotive engineer saw a picture on some forum showing a cardboard endcap versus a metal endcap and decided cardboard is no good doesn't mean diddly squat.  (He claims to be an electrical engineer, wonder what he thinks about that cheap paper inside a capacitor?)

I love how some folks will take what one person claims on a web forum or blog and treat it as gospel, without even thinking about what ulterior motives that person might have for his "expert" opinion.  Any time someone praises one product unconditionally and dumps all over another, and doesn't supply proven facts and performance data to support his opinions, I tend to be a little suspicious.  Kind of like when the bike mags do an article on the latest whiz bang magical performance upgrade and fall all over themselves praising it, but only after the manufacturer buys at least one full page ad in the magazine, preferably two or more.  

If you want to obsess over something that's a little more likely to affect the long term durability of your engine, try obsessing over the bypass settings.  Having the oil completely bypass the filter media on a regular basis, like with the earlier 10 micron Harley filters, is much more common than a one in ten million piece of cardboard floating around.

Jerry

All I said was that I have PERSONALLY cut a Fram, NAPA, Baldwin, and Pennzoil filter open and looked at the construction of all. If your comfortable using a filter that has a piece of stamped metal as a pressure relief spring, and a piece of twine tied around the center of the filter media, and cardboard at the end holding it all together, more power to you. Me, I prefer a metal case with a coil spring to control bypass pressure.

So what filter do you use on your Harley, and why?

[Boatman]

I like the K&N oil filter for the hex nut welded on the end.  Easy on and off.  Hope it is a good oil filter internally too.

[Mr D]

 
Change m early and often
Ride On...

[yellowhog]

If you check what I said early on, we need to do some research for ourselves.  Just taking someone's word for something is not what I meant.  I listed a "starting point" for this.  Looking at one or two points of view does not, in my opinion, constitute "research" either.  After checking into something sufficiently, you can then make an informed decision based on the information you have researched.  If you are satisfied with the choice(s) you've made, then you have succeeded.  I think this topic has gotten out of hand.  I've been using Harley filters and oil for years now with no problems.  Are there better products out there?  I'm sure there are, but I'm still researching the subject.  There are many factors to consider when choosing.  That's why they make a variety of choices.  If everyone just chose what he heard was best, there would only be a couple of products to choose from.  Bashing one man's research just doesn't accomplish much in my opinion...

[grc]

I've been using K&N filters (KN-171C these days, KN-171B on a previous Twin Cam) for many years now.  I like that 17mm nut on the end rather than trying to fish a regular filter wrench in around the crank sensor (a brilliant location from the aces at H-D), and the test results I found back then indicated a much higher bypass pressure setting and more consistent bypass operation compared to the H-D part, along with a significant increase in filter media surface area.   

BTW, if cutting apart an oil filter and seeing how it was made scared you, make sure you never completely disassemble your Harley.  And I stand by my earlier comments, if the Fram filter was so lousy why is it we haven't heard a hue and cry across the land (Fram has been the top selling brand for more years than I can remember)?  Is it perhaps that even though it looks like 40 year old technology, it still does the job?  I don't know, I'm just asking questions.

Show me the measured performance of the various products, not just "I don't like the looks of how they made the part", and maybe I would buy into the whole "bash Fram" idea.  So far, however, I don't see any data that tells me the filters don't meet manufacturer's standards, or that the filters are causing engine failures, etc.  And most importantly, Fram makes more than one quality level/price point oil filter.  While the lowest priced filter looks like something from 1960, Fram also makes modern filters at higher price points that use synthetic media and metal end caps and all the other stuff the author praised from his favored brands.  My entire point was and is, why badmouth ALL Fram filters, like the author of that report did, when they don't all use that manufacturing method?  That's kind of like badmouthing a 2002 Twin Cam just because the 2007 version was such a POS.

Jerry

[RGS1966]

If you change your old every 3,000 miles it does not matter what oil filter you use.  If your bike has that much metal floating around in it to be that concerned you have other problems to worry about not the micron level of the filter.  I have had two Screamin Eagle Harley used KN and HD filters in both and changed the oil every 3k miles with no problems.  I have used Amsoil in both Harleys and in my old hot rods with high compression engines with no problems.  The only fact to syn oil is that it will burn up your cam tension plates faster.

[Mr D]

If you change your old every 3,000 miles it does not matter what oil filter you use.  If your bike has that much metal floating around in it to be that concerned you have other problems to worry about not the micron level of the filter.  I have had two Screamin Eagle Harley used KN and HD filters in both and changed the oil every 3k miles with no problems.  I have used Amsoil in both Harleys and in my old hot rods with high compression engines with no problems.  The only fact to syn oil is that it will burn up your cam tension plates faster.

 

[110tHunDer]

Don't ya just love oil threads?

[HOGMIKE]

If you change your old every 3,000 miles it does not matter what oil filter you use.  If your bike has that much metal floating around in it to be that concerned you have other problems to worry about not the micron level of the filter.  I have had two Screamin Eagle Harley used KN and HD filters in both and changed the oil every 3k miles with no problems.  I have used Amsoil in both Harleys and in my old hot rods with high compression engines with no problems.  The only fact to syn oil is that it will burn up your cam tension plates faster.

Boy, that is scary!
How many miles do you think I can go before mine are destroyed??
Should I pull my motor down at 2000 miles?? Or, what interval??
 

[skreminegul07]

I've been using K&N filters (KN-171C these days, KN-171B on a previous Twin Cam) for many years now.  I like that 17mm nut on the end rather than trying to fish a regular filter wrench in around the crank sensor (a brilliant location from the aces at H-D), and the test results I found back then indicated a much higher bypass pressure setting and more consistent bypass operation compared to the H-D part, along with a significant increase in filter media surface area.   

BTW, if cutting apart an oil filter and seeing how it was made scared you, make sure you never completely disassemble your Harley.  And I stand by my earlier comments, if the Fram filter was so lousy why is it we haven't heard a hue and cry across the land (Fram has been the top selling brand for more years than I can remember)?  Is it perhaps that even though it looks like 40 year old technology, it still does the job?  I don't know, I'm just asking questions.

Show me the measured performance of the various products, not just "I don't like the looks of how they made the part", and maybe I would buy into the whole "bash Fram" idea.  So far, however, I don't see any data that tells me the filters don't meet manufacturer's standards, or that the filters are causing engine failures, etc.  And most importantly, Fram makes more than one quality level/price point oil filter.  While the lowest priced filter looks like something from 1960, Fram also makes modern filters at higher price points that use synthetic media and metal end caps and all the other stuff the author praised from his favored brands.  My entire point was and is, why badmouth ALL Fram filters, like the author of that report did, when they don't all use that manufacturing method?  That's kind of like badmouthing a 2002 Twin Cam just because the 2007 version was such a POS.

Jerry

Jerry, the KN-171C is for the Twin Cam (C is for chrome, B is for black)  The EVOs use the KN-170C.  Although I've seen HD say the newer filters can be used on the EVOs.  Maybe someone here knows, but I thought the two engines differed in the oil journey through the engine, one is filtered before the pump, on is filtered on the return and because of that, the pressure relief springs and filters had different restriction (5 vs. 10 microns).  I use both, FXR EVO and Street Glide TC.
THe weld on nut is the best feature. I get these by the dozen from Ebay for under $10.

[OhioDave]

 

[grc]

.......................................
The only fact to syn oil is that it will burn up your cam tension plates faster.

Excuse my stupidity, but how did you come up with that gem?  Last I heard, even H-D finally figured out what was causing all those tensioner failures, and it had nothing to do with the type of oil.  It has to do with poor design and even poorer part quality. 

Jerry

[Mr D]

Excuse my stupidity, but how did you come up with that gem?  Last I heard, even H-D finally figured out what was causing all those tensioner failures, and it had nothing to do with the type of oil.  It has to do with poor design and even poorer part quality. 

Jerry

I concur Jerry