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[SilverDawg]

Thanks Scott. The more I hear, the closer I am to getting a set of V&H TD's for the new bike.

Cheers

Chief

Me too!!!

[copout221]

I don't think you will get 5/16 of an inch movement.  The cast internal stops will not allow for this much movement regardless of where it was originally positioned at the factory.

  Once you remove the 7/16 attachment bolt, you only need to remove the two oil delivery and return lines from the fittings to completely remove the coolant adapter.  If you intend to do this, make sure you accurately mark the area you need machined from the adapter before you disassemble it from your bike.  As I said earlier, you can grind clearance or mill clearance.  There is plenty of excess material in the area of your interference.  Be careful not to damage the gasket on the back side of the adapter.

Scott

Ok...After removing the adaptor I installed the O2 sensor in the header and re-installed the adaptor. It took some time to get the adaptor back on correctly with the O2 sensor installed but I was able to get it done. The sensor is touching the adaptor with about 1/8 inch of clearance from the bottom of the crimped end of the sensor. What makes it very tight is the five wires covered in heat resistant shielding that exit the bottom of the sensor. They are making contact with the adaptor and there is nothing that can be done about it. Overall, it is a tight fit that I would not want to tackle again and I certainly hope it was worth it. The bike is running like a champ now and I cannot wait for better weather to see how the bike runs with the Thundermax and Autotune module.

[Twolanerider]

Ok...After removing the adaptor I installed the O2 sensor in the header and re-installed the adaptor. It took some time to get the adaptor back on correctly with the O2 sensor installed but I was able to get it done. The sensor is touching the adaptor with about 1/8 inch of clearance from the bottom of the crimped end of the sensor. What makes it very tight is the five wires covered in heat resistant shielding that exit the bottom of the sensor. They are making contact with the adaptor and there is nothing that can be done about it. Overall, it is a tight fit that I would not want to tackle again and I certainly hope it was worth it. The bike is running like a champ now and I cannot wait for better weather to see how the bike runs with the Thundermax and Autotune module.

You say that the sensor's harness itself is making contact.  Mounted to the pipe the sensor is a piece that will get some movement.  Is the wiring touching such that it will abraid and wear through.  Can't see so obviously can't know what you know from having had the task in hand.  But wires that might move a little pinched against a piece that can't is a worrisome proposition.

[sadunbar]

You say that the sensor's harness itself is making contact.  Mounted to the pipe the sensor is a piece that will get some movement.  Is the wiring touching such that it will abraid and wear through.  Can't see so obviously can't know what you know from having had the task in hand.  But wires that might move a little pinched against a piece that can't is a worrisome proposition.

I absolutely agree with your comments.  Did you get the sensor installed by only rotating the adapter or did you machine additional clearance?  Personally, I do not think you can allow to have the wiring touching the sensor with any kind of pressure.  If they are touching in a relaxed manner, I would consider adding some additional insulating or protective covering.

I know it is a lot of work to get this right, but better now in the comfort of your garage then along the highway.... :-/

Scott

[RedDevil]

Ok...After removing the adaptor I installed the O2 sensor in the header and re-installed the adaptor. It took some time to get the adaptor back on correctly with the O2 sensor installed but I was able to get it done. The sensor is touching the adaptor with about 1/8 inch of clearance from the bottom of the crimped end of the sensor. What makes it very tight is the five wires covered in heat resistant shielding that exit the bottom of the sensor. [highlight]They are making contact with the adaptor and there is nothing that can be done about it.[/highlight] Overall, it is a tight fit that I would not want to tackle again and I certainly hope it was worth it. The bike is running like a champ now and I cannot wait for better weather to see how the bike runs with the Thundermax and Autotune module.

I agree with the other commenters.  I think you're asking for problems here.  You need to get those wires away from the adapter.  The engine, especially at idle, vibrates considerably in the frame.  Those wires will be rubbing against the adapter, and I would venture to guess in less than 500 miles of driving, you'll be worn through the heat wrap and the insulation on the wires...which could disable your sensor and cause your ECU to get false readings on the front jug, or possibly cause the ECU to shut down....I don't know if that would be a case, as I'm not familiar with the Thundermaxx setup and how often the ECU gathers information from the sensors.  It boils down to it will be okay as long as those wires are not moving against an imoveable object.  So when your bikes not running you're okay, but otherwise, could be bad juju. [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=nervous.gif]

Red

Red

[pj57]

I switched out the H-D extended brake arm with the Kuryakyn.  It solved the fitment issue with the Rineharts and it looks wise it is a near perfect match, but mine rattles like crazy.  Anybody else experiencing this with the Kuryakyn?  PJ

[copout221]

I totally agree and may contact Rinehart to see if they can send me another header pipe to see if that one has the sensor port mounted a few more degrees up. Otherwise, there is nothing I can do at this point about the wires rubbing. I was told by Bill Lam at Zippers not to worry about the shielding touching the adaptor because it is a very durable heat resistant material. However, he never said it was friction proof and that definitley concerns me. I am going to shoot him an e-mail to make sure the sensor will hold up to the vibration and rubbing but he did say the wiring will make contact with the filter adaptor and it should be ok. I did make it clear to him that he may be hearing from me later this year for a replacement sensor (at no charge) and he said they would take care of it if that is the case.

[RedDevil]

I totally agree and may contact Rinehart to see if they can send me another header pipe to see if that one has the sensor port mounted a few more degrees up. Otherwise, there is nothing I can do at this point about the wires rubbing. I was told by Bill Lam at Zippers not to worry about the shielding touching the adaptor because it is a very durable heat resistant material. However, he never said it was friction proof and that definitley concerns me. I am going to shoot him an e-mail to make sure the sensor will hold up to the vibration and rubbing but he did say the wiring will make contact with the filter adaptor and it should be ok. I did make it clear to him that he may be hearing from me later this year for a replacement sensor (at no charge) and he said they would take care of it if that is the case.

Copout,
I hope they send you another pipe...rubbing is rubbing, and over time it will wear through, especially if the wire is crimped or pressed against that adapter.   His answer that they would take care of it is a good one, however, that may not be of much comfort if your stuck out on the road in the middle of an extended trip with a toasted sensor and EFI module.

Red

[copout221]

If Rinehart is unwilling to send me a new pipe to try I am going to mill the top of the adaptor for clearance. I really don't want to replace the Rineharts or send the Zippers kit back so I will need to make this work. The piece can always be replaced so milling the adaptor will be the option I will pursue. Remember, the rubbing should be minimal because the lower section of the motor moves along with the upper section. So basically, it all moves together which should keep the rubbing to a minimum.However, the heads are aluminum and will expand and contract when heated up and cooled. This is where I may run into a problem. I will attach a picture later.

[jdk20723]

It is a tight fit, no question, and another sensor is not an option.  The shorter 2 wire sensor that HD uses is shorter, true, because it doesn't do as much as the 5 wire.  The 5-wire wiring is shielded by a durable plastic cover designed to protect the insulated wires.  On the installations we've done, and others done by a local shop I spoke with, the metal casing of the sensor does not touch the OC line housing, only the plastic shield.  That's not to say that there may be a variance in where the bung is welded in the pipe that can make it worse for some models.  

Clearly, the pipe manufacturers did not consider wide band sensors when they placed the bungs.  Someone else mentioned a V&H TD pipe, from what I've seen, theirs is worse, with the rear pipe causing a clearance issue.

The OC line housing can be clearanced to make room if you are not comfortable with the clearance, it's pretty thick where the fit is tight.  I wish it was easier, but remember one mfg made the bike, another the pipe, another the sensor.  The difference in the way the bike will run afterward is worth the trouble.  Thanks, JK

[RedDevil]

If Rinehart is unwilling to send me a new pipe to try I am going to mill the top of the adaptor for clearance. I really don't want to replace the Rineharts or send the Zippers kit back so I will need to make this work. The piece can always be replaced so milling the adaptor will be the option I will pursue. Remember, the rubbing should be minimal because the lower section of the motor moves along with the upper section. So basically, it all moves together which should keep the rubbing to a minimum.However, the heads are aluminum and will expand and contract when heated up and cooled. This is where I may run into a problem. I will attach a picture later.

Copout,
Can't wait to see the pics.  Personally, I think it's totally unsat to have to mill any parts to make an aftermarket part fit.  Especially when the aftermarket manufacturers tout that it's a "simple bolt on and go" and is designed to fit without modifications.  Just my $0.02.
Red

[RedDevil]

It is a tight fit, no question, and another sensor is not an option.  The shorter 2 wire sensor that HD uses is shorter, true, because it doesn't do as much as the 5 wire.  The 5-wire wiring is shielded by a durable plastic cover designed to protect the insulated wires.  On the installations we've done, and others done by a local shop I spoke with, the metal casing of the sensor does not touch the OC line housing, only the plastic shield.  That's not to say that there may be a variance in where the bung is welded in the pipe that can make it worse for some models.  

Clearly, the pipe manufacturers did not consider wide band sensors when they placed the bungs.  Someone else mentioned a [highlight]V&H TD pipe, from what I've seen, theirs is worse, with the rear pipe causing a clearance issue[/highlight].

The OC line housing can be clearanced to make room if you are not comfortable with the clearance, it's pretty thick where the fit is tight.  I wish it was easier, but remember one mfg made the bike, another the pipe, another the sensor.  The difference in the way the bike will run afterward is worth the trouble.  Thanks, JK

Interesting observation.  I don't have the wideband sensors on my SEUC, but the factory narrowband ones, but there is plenty of clearance on the rear pipe with my V&H's duals, that I'm positive it could handle any wideband sensor without a clearance issue.  
Red

[copout221]

Copout,
Can't wait to see the pics.  Personally, I think it's totally unsat to have to mill any parts to make an aftermarket part fit.  Especially when the aftermarket manufacturers tout that it's a "simple bolt on and go" and is designed to fit without modifications.  Just my $0.02.
Red

I agree but I really think Rinehart is going to tell me to "pound sand" and explain that it is not their fault if I am not using the factory O2 sensors. They may have a point ! How am I supposed to prove that the front bunge was put in the wrong location or is angled 4 degrees too far forward. This whole project has not only been expensive but extremely aggravating. That is why I am using this forum. I get good quality information and suggestions on how to remedy problems like this but it is still aggravating when I put aside 8 hours of my day to install and Thundermax Auto Tune kit and new brake lever and it takes me over 72hrs to come up with a half-ass fix. I really don't know what to do at this point, especially if Rinehart refuses to send me another header pipe to try.

Also, if that sensor does somehow get damaged or the wires short themselves shouldn't there be some sort of safeguard built into the O2 conversion module to prevent damage to the ECM (probably a ? for Zippers on Monday)? In addition, if one of the sensors does get damaged for whatever reason the bike should still run and get you home, it may run like crap but should run. The zippers module can be used without the wide band auto tune system so I don't see any problem if one of the sensors goes out. Just my opinion on the subject. At that point I will contact Zippers and complain about it to prove to them that they were wrong. However, I really need to prove that they are wrong before bitching.

[sadunbar]

I take your note to mean you have not machined any clearance on your oil cooler adapter as of yet.  As I said earlier, there is ample excess material on the adapter in the area of your interference, and there is no risk what so ever as to the function of the adapter if you milled clearance.  It would put you in a safe zone with your O2 sensor wiring.  If you chose not to mill the clearance, it would be a decision based on principal - which I totally understand.  I on the other hand, change all kinds of things on my bikes for all kinds of reasons.  For me anyway, having milled clearance on the adapter to properly install the sensor outways the principal of not having to do this to a new bike.  I am completely confident I have a reliable, functioning system, and do not have to wonder if I will be stranded on the highway due to electrical wires shorting on the 02 sensor.  I like the Rineharts enough and the ThunderMax system enough to justify milling the adapter and gaining the piece of mind of a solid installation.

but - to each his own ...good luck...Scott

[sadunbar]

[highlight]I totally agree and may contact Rinehart to see if they can send me another header pipe to see if that one has the sensor port mounted a few more degrees up.[/highlight] Otherwise, there is nothing I can do at this point about the wires rubbing. I was told by Bill Lam at Zippers not to worry about the shielding touching the adaptor because it is a very durable heat resistant material. However, he never said it was friction proof and that definitley concerns me. I am going to shoot him an e-mail to make sure the sensor will hold up to the vibration and rubbing but he did say the wiring will make contact with the filter adaptor and it should be ok. I did make it clear to him that he may be hearing from me later this year for a replacement sensor (at no charge) and he said they would take care of it if that is the case.

There is variation in the Rinehart manufacturing process, because others have installed these pipes and the ThunderMax 02 sensor with no interference issue.  That would be the argument you would make when requesting a replacement pipe...

Scott