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[Twolanerider]

since it's dual cooled would that mean the engine is not fully dependent on the liquid cooling to run without a failure.
after all it is the same engine with just the addition of cooled heads, correct?
i get the impression that the liquid cooling isn't really necessary on cooler riding days so the lowers including the entire liquid cooling system should be removable if so desired.

The heads still have fins; that's true.  But....

Cam profiles were changed and compression increased.  It's not a totally unfair assessment to suggest that the 110s were living on the edge to begin with.  That seems reinforced by the idea that a real improvement could come from such a small amount of additional cooling.  If you're seeing the hairy edge to begin with, and you're now pushing that same engine a little bit harder, I'd personally want to keep the cooling on board. 

Unlike a water cooled automobile that's a no-go if you lose coolant the existing air cooled nature of the twin cam means you can at least likely get home if you blow a hose/fitting.  But, long term, if the cooling is in place you might as well use it.

[highwayking]

Does the 2014 CVO Limited have a radiator?  Is there a water pump?  Will you have to change anti-freeze each year as part of the regular maintenance?  Does anybody know how the water cooled heads operate?  I've got a lot of skepticism about this "new and improved" engine.

[05Train]

It's a stopgap, and not a very good one.  Had they gone with full water cooling, fine.  Had they gone with an oil cooled head like the XR1200, even better.  They've created a halfway solution that'll be orphaned in a few years when they make the jump to full water cooling.   


Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

[Boatman]

2 radiators, electric water pump, cooling fans, $29.95 HD antifreeze, and no engine oil cooler.

We may as well get used to it as it will eventually be std  on all models I believe.

[grc]

2 radiators, electric water pump, cooling fans, $29.95 HD antifreeze, and no engine oil cooler.

We may as well get used to it as it will eventually be std  on all models I believe.

Yup, and I can't wait to see how they intend to hang a radiator and coolant lines on the various naked (no fairing) models.  All those guys with water cooled Japanese bikes will finally get the last laugh after all the years of Harley folks making fun of them and their radiators.

This system is actually quite simple compared to the fully water cooled bikes, but based on previous history I wouldn't assume that means it will be a trouble free launch.  Harley hasn't launched anything in recent memory, even decades old automotive tech they borrowed, without plenty of headaches for the beta testers.  I'm guessing the first problems will involve leaks at the various fittings, then electrical failures in the pump circuit. 

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

It's a stopgap, and not a very good one.  Had they gone with full water cooling, fine.  Had they gone with an oil cooled head like the XR1200, even better.  They've created a halfway solution that'll be orphaned in a few years when they make the jump to full water cooling.   


Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

That it's merely a first step toward whatever comes next is obvious.  It's the first step that is in place now though.  And it does have some benefit for an engine that was too often just barely surviving to begin with.

[05Train]

That it's merely a first step toward whatever comes next is obvious.  It's the first step that is in place now though.  And it does have some benefit for an engine that was too often just barely surviving to begin with.

Sure it does, but it's an inelegant JC Whitney/Heathkit kludge.  There's a lot to like about the '14s, like the linked brakes, the stiffer triple tree, and the 49mm forks.  The halfway Hydro-Glide isn't a good step forward. 


Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

[Twolanerider]

 I've got a lot of skepticism about this "new and improved" engine.

The engine is by no means "new."  We know of certain potential improvements with some new bearing races inside the engine.  But that has nothing to do with the water cooling and everything to do with continually dealing with deficiencies they'd created before.  It's not "new" though.

It is, at its simplest, the same old engine with a bit of new plumbing going around the exhaust valves inside what is otherwise the same old heads.  Nothing radical there.  Yes, they changed some cam/timing/induction parameters.  But that's all just tuning of the existing system rather than anything radically new.

Jerry touched on the real question.  It's not some revolutionary engine that's a worry.  The old engine has been  worry enough.  The question is Mother Harley's poor history with just about anything new; whether it be evolutionary, revolutionary or simply adopted and adapted from the auto industry.

So, yes, pay attention to line coupling systems borrowed from the automotive world that, perhaps, won't stand up to the higher vibration and more exposed environment on the motorcycle.  Issues like that are the biggest worry right now for Harley and its new water cooling toys here.

[Fired00d]

since it's dual cooled would that mean the engine is not fully dependent on the liquid cooling to run without a failure.
after all it is the same engine with just the addition of cooled heads, correct?
i get the impression that the liquid cooling isn't really necessary on cooler riding days so the lowers including the entire liquid cooling system should be removable if so desired.

Most want their lowers on in the cooler weather and them removed in the warmer (hot) weather when the addition of the liquid cooling would be most desirable.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Sure it does, but it's an inelegant JC Whitney/Heathkit kludge.  There's a lot to like about the '14s, like the linked brakes, the stiffer triple tree, and the 49mm forks.  The halfway Hydro-Glide isn't a good step forward. 


Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

Again just stating the obvious.  That its nothing revolutionary, nor even terribly fancy, doesn't mean there isn't some benefit to the system though.

Given the application, however, what else were they going to do?  There is no new engine.  Harley isn't going to clad an engine bay in plastics like a Goldwing.  So the engine is going to be exposed.  So radiators go in fairing lowers.  In the existing systems it's not like they have any other option. 

The system isn't at all fancy or particularly elegant.  It is, however, almost exactly what was expected and what should have been expected given the application it is applied to.  All that doesn't mean it will or won't do a fair job toward its intended purpose.  Questions around that are what will be on most riders minds right now:

Will it help.
Will it be reliable.

[05Train]

Again just stating the obvious.  That its nothing revolutionary, nor even terribly fancy, doesn't mean there isn't some benefit to the system though.

Given the application, however, what else were they going to do?  There is no new engine.  Harley isn't going to clad an engine bay in plastics like a Goldwing.  So the engine is going to be exposed.  So radiators go in fairing lowers.  In the existing systems it's not like they have any other option. 

The system isn't at all fancy or particularly elegant.  It is, however, almost exactly what was expected and what should have been expected given the application it is applied to.  All that doesn't mean it will or won't do a fair job toward its intended purpose.  Questions around that are what will be on most riders minds right now:

Will it help.
Will it be reliable.

You stating something is "obvious" may make you feel somewhat superior, but doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things.  No one's suggesting that the bikes be clad in plastic, but going to an oil-cooled head would have achieved far better cooling with less complexity and expense. 

While it may be beneficial, it's half-a$$ed. 


Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

[porthole]

Gary sure has been busy the last few days - more raisin pie for him 

[sadunbar]

You stating something is "obvious" may make you feel somewhat superior, but doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things.  No one's suggesting that the bikes be clad in plastic, but going to an oil-cooled head would have achieved far better cooling with less complexity and expense. 

While it may be beneficial, it's half-a$$ed. 


Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

Huh?  You'd have to explain that thought a bit further for me to understand...   

[Twolanerider]

While it may be beneficial, it's half-a$$ed.  

You're still missing or avoiding the question.  It's not anything fancy.  We've agreed.  So not sure what points you're trying to score by restating the obvious.  The question then becomes, given the platform on which they're working, what else did you expect or can (realistically) suggest?

Form in some way does follow function but both have to work within the platform/system they're applied to.  That system is a pretty well defined Harley Twin Cam equipped bagger.  On that platform what else were they going to do?

[North Georgia Hawg]

You stating something is "obvious" may make you feel somewhat superior, but doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. 

That was totally uncalled for...

Ken