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[Twolanerider]

Just saw you were having problems on the road Jerry.  Then read more and saw you were having big problems.  That sucks man.  Really sorry.

At least you did limp in to a good shop.  Thank Willie for small favors.  You're only a couple hours north of me and I'm heading to Kansas City in the morning.  Will be there through Tuesday.  If you're still in the area a bit before heading back to Memphis give me a ring.

[CircleRacer]

Sorry about your engine Jerry!! Robin welcome to the CVO site good to have you here. Robin can you tell if the needle bearings failed first and that caused the roller not to turn and that destroyed the cam? I use to build a lot of small block Chevrolet circle track engines we used roller cams because we turned the engines 8,500 rpm I have seen a lot of $38,000.00 engines destroyed because of the needle bearing breaking. Isky cams came out with a bronze type bushing in there roller lifter and the problem went away I have installed a lot of this style roller lifter with no breakage at all. I was wondering if any one makes a roller lifter of this type for a Harley-Davidson? The roller lifters I have used were all mechanical no hydraulic.

[rigidthumper]

Sorry about your engine Jerry!! Robin welcome to the CVO site good to have you here. Robin can you tell if the needle bearings failed first and that caused the roller not to turn and that destroyed the cam? I use to build a lot of small block Chevrolet circle track engines we used roller cams because we turned the engines 8,500 rpm I have seen a lot of $38,000.00 engines destroyed because of the needle bearing breaking. Isky cams came out with a bronze type bushing in there roller lifter and the problem went away I have installed a lot of this style roller lifter with no breakage at all. I was wondering if any one makes a roller lifter of this type for a Harley-Davidson? The roller lifters I have used were all mechanical no hydraulic.

Looks like the roller stopped rolling, prolly due to one of the needle bearings getting a flat spot or a minute piece of trash (it happens), and over time the cam machines itself on the immobile lifter roller. Non normal lift at the valve results in the miss, as all the fuel and air that is supposed to be going into the cylinder can't get past the 1/2 open valve. The roller was mostly egg shaped, so sometimes it would have normal lift, sometimes no lift. The roller still had all it's needle bearings, BTW.

[TinSpinner]

Looks like the roller stopped rolling, prolly due to one of the needle bearings getting a flat spot or a minute piece of trash (it happens), and over time the cam machines itself on the immobile lifter roller. Non normal lift at the valve results in the miss, as all the fuel and air that is supposed to be going into the cylinder can't get past the 1/2 open valve. The roller was mostly egg shaped, so sometimes it would have normal lift, sometimes no lift. The roller still had all it's needle bearings, BTW.

Great forensic explanation of what can and does go wrong sometimes! Thanks and welcome to the site Robin.

[CircleRacer]

Thank You Robin I have seen this too many times in race engines.

[ultrafxr]

You're pretty calm for just shelling your $36,000 bike's 23,000 mile motor during a road trip!  A lot more calm than I'd be, anyway!  Might as well go ahead, roll the dice, and buy that first year water cooled motor whenever it comes out instead of waiting for the MoCo to get it "right." apparently, not even 6 years was long enough for the 110!  

Hope you get everything sorted out quickly and to your satisfaction!

Brian, after having suffered as a beta tester for the '07 110s I guess I have just developed an 'Honey Badger' mentality - I don't give a chit!  Am I pizzed that such a new motor on such an expensive 'premium' machine should have such a problem at only 23k.  Well, yeah, sure.  But I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that 'you gotta pay to play.'  And that means playing even bone stock as the motor on the '12 is.  I know we are all anal about our machines myself included.  But I think that these 110s are a ticking time bomb.  They are going to blow it is just a matter of time.  Not sure about the newer 103s as they have the same lifters I think.  But the 110s have such a stout valve spring that they just hammer the entire valve train and for what I do not undersand.  The 255 cam is not a high lift cam as far as I know.

So use the best oil and filter, change it every day and I don't think it will make one iota of difference if you never changed the oil.  These things are simply underengineered and/or sourced with less than capable components as far as I am concerned.  I love 'em when they are running good, and they do run good - plenty good enough for me.  But I'm not surprised anymore.  It is just the way it is.  Know what I mean?

[ultrafxr]

.......or make the switch to "Beemer"!  

No, don't think I'm a Beemer kind of guy.  Nice machines no doubt but the ergonomics and electronics (audio/intercom/cb/XM, etc) are not nearly up to par with Harley.  And I not heard of any BSR who liked the passenger seat / positon on a Beemer touring bike.  And did I mention that they are TALL and TOP HEAVY.  No thanks, I'll pass on that.

IMO Honda is a better choice and there was a black late model Goldwing outside the service department at Gail's H-D.  Service writer said it was a trade in on a Harley!  I looked it over and decided that if I rode a Goldwing I'd have to get a pocket protector, some highwater pants, white socks, sneakers, and maybe on of those beenie hats with the triangle points and the propeller on top.  That is just my vision of a Wing rider.  No offence to those of you who do or have ridden Wings.  We are all entitled to our opinions and that is mine.

So love 'em or hate 'em I guess I'll stick with Harleys.  I mean at my age how much more riding time to I have anyway, lol.  

[ultrafxr]

Here are some shots of my day at Gail's H-D yesterday.  First of all let me state unequivocally that this is absolutely without a doubt the finest dealership I have ever visited.  I thought Pig Trail H-D in Rogers, AR, was until yesterday but Gail's just blows them away.

I was greeted by Bob the service writer when I arrived at 7:30 am.  He listened to my bike and agreed with me that the knocking noise was indeed the more serious of my issues.  Of course did not know at that time that it was THE ISSUE!  Bob said go on into the lounge and have some coffee - just made some but please stay in the lounge area as the store does not open until 9 am and no one in there now.

Got some coffee and shortly thereafter Roger, the dealerships Customer Service, Guest Relations, Wal-Mart greeter on steroids came by and talked to us.  We spent over an hour talking to and bantering with Roger and found that we have been on some of the very same HOG rides over the years and have quite a bit in common.  

Just before the store opened and the techs started work at 9 am Roger introduced us to John, the Executive V-P of the dealership.  I told him that his service department and Robin in particular came highly recommended but I did not know if he was available.  John said 'we will make him available' which he did promptly at 9 am.

 Robin came in and spoke to us, told us what he would check out and began work.  Within about 20 minutes he had pulled and inspected the plugs., done a compression test, pulled the push rod tubes to check for a collapsed lifter, then pulled the complete exhaust and the cam chest cover.  Whew it would take me longer than that just to the saddlebags off!  Robin works like a surgeon - totally focused with no wasted motions and gets right to it.  

Here are a few shots.

Robin on the bike putting it under a load to check for compensator problem.  He said holding brake and letting clutch into friction zone will make compensator noise lessen.  It did not so this is not the problem - we didn't think so anyway.  That is Adam, the Service Manager, on his left - an awesome individual also.


Let's strip this baby down and she what is in her knickers.  BTW Robin is in Bay 1, closest to the window in the customer lounge if that tells you anything!


When he got the cam chest cover off and a piece of metal fell out he knew we had a problem.

[ultrafxr]

I'll start afresh with a new 'reply' as long ones tend to wrap around and I can't see what I'm typing after a while.  It that just me or is that the way these forum software packages do?

In any case here is a closeup of the rear cylinder exhaust cam lobe.  Kinda of hard to see but it was buggered up.  Buggered up is a highly technical term for HOLY CHIT!



Hmm, guess we found the problem.

[ultrafxr]

So I decided to entrust my baby in Robin and Adam's, et al, capable hands.  I know they do all in their power to get it as perfect as possible.

All this was decided in less than two hours.  So we decided to get a rental vehicle - one large enough that we could get our Bushtec trailer in it.  Now who woulda thunk that in a town as big as KC that would be a problem?  Well let me tell you it was.  Couple years ago I needed one in St. Louis 'cause I cracked my ankle bone just a little bit.  Could not find on in the entire metro area for one way rental so I wound up driving the '07 and the Busthec home - busted ankle and all.  But no joy with the '12 as it is sitting around with its underwear being laundered and not capable of going anywhere.

Finally we did locate a 10' U-Haul truck available in Lee's Summit, MO, after 6 pm.  Hmmm, no we need it NOW.  So finally they said OK, ready at 3 pm.  And Adam had their delivery vehicle driver take me over there (20 minute ride) to pick up the truck.  No charge, no problem, glad to do it for you.

Then they found some tie downs and helped me load and secure the Bushtec and we were off on our way home about 4 pm

[ultrafxr]

When I got back from picking up the truck, the owner, Gail Worth, is chatting with the Queen and had been for quite a while I learn.  What a super person.  I told her that her dealership is surpurb and I know it does not happen by accident.  Oh no.  She made it happen by getting top notch quality people in all positions who will not tolerate anyone who does not measure up as it reflects on them as well.

Now you may think I am going overboard but I just could not believe the fantastically positive experience we had in spite of having bike problems.  That for us is one of the main things that makes owning a Harley so special.  

You guys that have Gail's and Robin and all the other fantastic folks there as your dealer are blessed.  Not everyone has such a favorable experience at their dealership.  I know I sure have not at various times over the years.

Thanks for reading about my experience and if you are anywhere close to KC stop by and visit the dealership and say hello to these folks.

[ultrafxr]

Mine just did the exact same this at 29995, two weeks before the main warranty was up.  They did have to replace the crank also, as the rods were grinding when moved. The dealer did a great job.  It runs better then new except for valve train at idle.  I went to the dealer today and they were too busy to take it apart, but they will look at it in a few weeks.  They just told me to drive it normally. 

I am going to the 110 and hope I do not have any problem.  But I will make sure I look Robin up if I do

David
CB channel 25 going to the 110.

Robin, I know you checked the runout on my crank as requested by tech services and it was just fine.  Imagine that!  Sure you checked the crank for any grinnding or restricted movement as well.  I am sure tech services wanted that verified also.  Just waiting patiently to see what develops.  Never know with the moco do we?

[110tHunDer]

 
I hear ya, Jerry.  I feel the same way, right or wrong.  It helps that you're being taken care of the way it sounds like you are.  Chit happens, but when it does, how you're treated makes all the difference.

[erniezap]

I hear ya, Jerry.  I feel the same way, right or wrong.  It helps that you're being taken care of the way it sounds like you are.  Chit happens, but when it does, how you're treated makes all the difference.

X2! 

[Bigfoot16]

Wow Jerry, your attitude is amazing.  I'm not sure I could handle this as well.  It sure is nice you found some first class people to help you.  If I'm ever out towards KC I'll be sure to stop in.