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CVO Technical => Drive Train => Topic started by: doubledown on August 31, 2010, 02:50:57 PM
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Steve from Fullsac Performance sent me a 30 tooth trans gears and -1 tooth belt. I had it installed yesterday, It is perfect for my riding style, which is 80% with the wife on the back riding narrow two lane roads through farm country, and we have alot of hills. From a dead stop I can now let the clutch out at an idle, bike fully loaded no piston slap or pinging and ease into the throttle. Whack the throttle open and your at 5k in a flash shifting like a dirt bike (okay maybe Im getting carried away) But it pulls MUCH harder than stock!
If you have the hooligan gene, a little throttle and a whiff of clutch ignites the back tire! It is easy to forget I am on a bagger now.
RPM... 80mph-3000rpm
90mph-3400rpm
100mph-3800rpm
I was having so much fun I forgot to check the slower speeds. Anyway just thought I would throw it out there in case anyone was on the fence. If your a local rider like me I stay within 150 mile radius this is the ticket.
The bike is an 09 SERG,
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Cool, glad your happy
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Did it affect your actual speed as read from the speedometer. If so how did you fix it so it is calibrated?
Thanks
Ray G,
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Ray, I have'nt checked it yet, but it is on my to do list. Actually I never checked the speedo with the stock gearing for accuracy. I'll check it this week.
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I sent Steve an e-mail yesterday for general information on your install. As you mentioned this may be the best way to fix he tall gearing, my bike has always sounded like it was taking off in second gear. Add the throttle lag that I have had since day one and it's something that should run better, much better.
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Steve from Fullsac Performance sent me a 30 tooth trans gears and -1 tooth belt. I had it installed yesterday, It is perfect for my riding style, which is 80% with the wife on the back riding narrow two lane roads through farm country, and we have alot of hills. From a dead stop I can now let the clutch out at an idle, bike fully loaded no piston slap or pinging and ease into the throttle. Whack the throttle open and your at 5k in a flash shifting like a dirt bike (okay maybe Im getting carried away) But it pulls MUCH harder than stock!
If you have the hooligan gene, a little throttle and a whiff of clutch ignites the back tire! It is easy to forget I am on a bagger now.
RPM... 80mph-3000rpm
90mph-3400rpm
100mph-3800rpm
I was having so much fun I forgot to check the slower speeds. Anyway just thought I would throw it out there in case anyone was on the fence. If your a local rider like me I stay within 150 mile radius this is the ticket.
The bike is an 09 SERG,
Glad you completed your install. Sounds like it was a big improvement for your riding style.
Here's some tech details for anyone interested.
09-2011 Stock gearing with 32T front belt pulley 2.84
31T front pulley 2.96
30T front pulley 3.06
To give reference, the 06 and ealier 5 speeds that we all rode for years had a 3.15 final. So even with a 30T front you still have quite a bit
taller gear than the old 5 speeds. I currently have the 2.96 gear in my 107" and will be going to the 3.06.
I spend a lot of time climbing hills, 2 up fully loaded in the 70-80mph zone and like instant acceleration for passing safely.
For you guys that ride heavy, its a huge improvement that starts when you let the clutch out in 1st. If you like doing burn outs too, its a double bonus!
Speedo will need to be calibrated. Very easy to do if you have TTS.
Both the 31 and 32T require a one tooth shorter belt. you can install a 31 with a stock belt, but the adjustment will be completely maxed out.
Not something I can recommend but some still do it.
Cost for a belt and pulley is 275.00. Its about a 2-3 hour job that requires a 2.25" deep socket to remove the pulley.
Steve George
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Mine now runs 80 MPH at 3000 RPM
changing to a 30T has to increase the RPM by at 5% or 150 RPM I would think.
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The 30 tooth output sprocket requires the full removal of the inner primary cover along with removing the counter sprocket and belt. Steve, I know you said that this is what most do, what about the Evo Industries 49 tooth driven primary sprocket and ring gear kit. This comes with new ring gear and sprocket as a unit and a new longer primary chain.
The below information is from their website: http://lzgusa.com/lzusa/evo/catalog2/product_info.php?cPath=95&products_id=330 (http://lzgusa.com/lzusa/evo/catalog2/product_info.php?cPath=95&products_id=330)
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Evolution Industries Sprocket Ring Gear For 2006 Dyna and 2007 and Later Big Twins.
Stock 46 Tooth 1.352 Gear Ratio **** Evolution 49 Tooth 1.441 Gear
4th Gear 70 MPH @ 3620 RPM **** 4th Gear 70 MPH @ 3816 RPM
5th Gear 70 MPH @ 3042 RPM **** 5th Gear 70 MPH @ 3363 RPM
6th Gear 70 MPH @ 2570 RPM **** 6th Gear 70 MPH @ 2786 RPM
6th Gear 102 MPH @ 3765 RPM **** 6th Gear 102 MPH @ 4028 RPM
Evolution Industries 49 Tooth Sprocket Ring Gear Raises RPM to Eliminate Lugging of Motor And Achieves Maximum Performance.
* Evolution Industries The Innovator and Manufacturer.
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* All Evolution Industries Sprocket and Ring Gears Are Manufactured From Aircraft Quality Steel, Heat Treated and Ground Per Evolution Industries Specifications to Insure Maximum Strength. All Are Designed To Fit Stock OEM Chain Baskets
* Includes Mounting Hardware.
* 49 Tooth Kit Includes Custom Primary Chain.
* 49 tooth Not compatible with 6th speed indicator light. Not compatible with cruise control
* Drilling Of Clutch Basket .1750 Deep Necessary With Optional Counter Bore Tool
* Made in USA.
* Sprocket Ring Gear 3 Year Limited Warranty.
EV:1010-1201 Sprocket and Ring Gear Set Replacement 46 Tooth (Stock). Fits 2006 Dyna and 2007 and Later Softail and Dyna.
List Price 420.90
EV:1010-1211 Sprocket and Ring Gear Set 49 Tooth. Fits 2006 Dyna and 2007 and Later Softail and Dyna. Includes Custom Primary Chain.
List Price 515.92
EV:1010-1221 Sprocket and Ring Gear Set 49 Tooth Fits 2007 and Later Touring Models Includes Custom Primary Chain.
List Price 515.92
EV:1011-2011 Primary Chain Replacement For 49 Tooth Kit EV:1010-1211.
List Price 105.92
EV:1011-2001 Primary Chain Replacement For 49 Tooth Kit EV:1010-1221
List Price 105.92
EV:1003-3001 Counter Bore Tool.
List Price 43.92
ORDERING INFORMATION
PHONE 909 594 7969
FAX 909 594 7969
E-MAIL evoind1@billetusa.com
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To me this still sounds like the better option as it does all the ratio changes BEFORE the transmission AND it gives an 8% greater torque output for the start as it too runs through the new gear ratio between the clutch and the compensator. So this should help cranking a bit too.
Less than a year ago the kit was $324.00 and now I see it's increased to $515.92. Now that's quite an increase, but you still don't have to take off your inner primary to do this.
You guys being the experts in the TTS side of all of our upgrades, I know that the speed can be tweaked for the 30 tooth trans sprocket to get the speedo back on track, but with the clutch basket the cruise and 6th gear light get messed up because of the speedo/rpm ratio changing. If I were to do the clutch sprocket upgrade from EVO Ind, can the TTS be tweaked to reset the registries for the new higher rpms?
I'm only offering an alternative to the output sprocket and belt change. The difference between the 49 tooth clutch sprocket compared to the 30 tooth output sprocket is less than 1%. So either way you're going to see about an 8% increase in rpms in all the gears.
For my use I'm sure that 8% would be a great improvement riding two up over the stock gearing now. My old '76 FLH 4 speed has a better low gear than the '09 SERG has, but man is it a wide ratio setup.
Thanks for your input on this and your experience in this is highly valued. I for one have been getting my monies worth from my Fullsac 2" baffles, TTS Mastertune and your stage 1 base map, which I've never even tweaked. I get great cool running performance and mid to high 40's in mileage. My bike performs better than my '08 SERK that I had dyno'd with a PCIII and V&H dresser duals and their Oval mufflers. I like the sound with my stock head pipe with CAT removed and your 2" baffles.
I'm very happy, all but the low gear in the Cruise Drive 6 speed being too high, hence all the junk listed in this thread...
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Hey Dan
Performance increase will be the same either way you go.
I personally shy away from the primary gear change for a couple of reason.
The lower primary ratio forces the starter to spin the engine faster putting more load on the starter.
I'm pushing my luck now running 10.2 comp with no releases.
I have a customer who has installed this, loves the new 3.06 gearing, hates the new whine coming from his primary.
We are talking about a larger after market clutch hub sprockets here with the chain taking a slightly different angle across the tensioner.
Definitely more mechanical potential for something to be not quite right.
As for labor: The primary change requires complete removal of the clutch assembly and compensator. Pulling the inner primary is another
5 mintes at most. Removing the back wheel and swing arm to fit the new belt is another 30 minites or so.
One of my biggest concerns was loosing the cruise control. This shouldn't be a problem with the ability to calibrate the ECM with TTS,
but just another one of my fears. I cant live with out cruise.
With the belt pulley and belt swap, we have an OEM belt and Aftermarket pulley. The new 2011 Tri Glide uses a 30T front pulley now too.
With this, most likely its now possible to accomplish the 3.06 final gearing with all OEM parts. I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there
who have done the primary gear change with zero complaints. Maybe I would be one of them too? When I look at the two options,
the belt and pulley swap seemed fool proof with little chance of mechanical complications. Simple stupid always seems to keep my stuff running
in the middle of now where. Except when you run stuff over, that's another story.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance
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Hey Dan
Performance increase will be the same either way you go.
I personally shy away from the primary gear change for a couple of reason.
The lower primary ratio forces the starter to spin the engine faster putting more load on the starter.
I'm pushing my luck now running 10.2 comp with no releases.
I have a customer who has installed this, loves the new 3.06 gearing, hates the new whine coming from his primary.
We are talking about a larger after market clutch hub sprockets here with the chain taking a slightly different angle across the tensioner.
Definitely more mechanical potential for something to be not quite right.
As for labor: The primary change requires complete removal of the clutch assembly and compensator. Pulling the inner primary is another
5 minutes at most. Removing the back wheel and swing arm to fit the new belt is another 30 minutes or so.
One of my biggest concerns was loosing the cruise control. This shouldn't be a problem with the ability to calibrate the ECM with TTS,
but just another one of my fears. I cant live with out cruise.
With the belt pulley and belt swap, we have an OEM belt and Aftermarket pulley. The new 2011 Tri Glide uses a 30T front pulley now too.
With this, most likely its now possible to accomplish the 3.06 final gearing with all OEM parts. I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there
who have done the primary gear change with zero complaints. Maybe I would be one of them too? When I look at the two options,
the belt and pulley swap seemed fool proof with little chance of mechanical complications. Simple stupid always seems to keep my stuff running
in the middle of now where. Except when you run stuff over, that's another story.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance
Steve, you make some good sense.
I'm going to do something this winter, but still not certain which direction I'll go. The 30T and rear belt are looking a lot better now that the EVO Ind sprocket/chain kit has gone up almost $200.00.
With all the talk about the CE Compensator, that might be a good addition while doing a 30T changeover.
Thanks again for your experienced opinion.
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The SE comp is on my list too with all the good reviews. I will switch to from the 31T (2.96) to the 30T (3.06) at the same time.
I ran really heavy on this last trip and seen some serious headwinds at elevation. Even with the 107" making over 100HP and 110TQ I was in 5th gear
for over a 100 miles during one stretch out side of Cheyene hitting 30-40 MPH winds on Interstate 80. Milage dropped to 30. :coolblue:
Steve
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Did the 30t/belt swap last winter along with the SE Compensator, and I now wish I had changed the sprocket much sooner! Completely changes the character of the 6-speed trans and it's now usable at speeds one would expect; especially riding 2-up!!
On the '07, final ended up 2.97 and 75mph is yielding ~2900rpm. And the 107" loves it! :2vrolijk_21:
Highly recommended, and as Steve pointed out correcting the speedo is a piece of cake with the TTS.
;)
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I remember Kenny doing this back in '08. I think he was one of the first to do it on his '07 and has been raving about it ever since. This may be my next project.
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yes this is definitely on my list im gonna go with the 30 t ill go as low as i can ill also go with the se comp to will im in there already have the chrome inner using the super tuner i looked at a recording and found at 193kph engine is only at 4613 rpm that's not even spinning yet the gearing might have been ok with a 96 over square engine with lots of bottom end torque offers good emissions and good fuel millage and no power but it aint good for a damn near square engine that likes a little higher rpm i find im rattling at low take of speeds and haven't even put all my camping gear and the lady on it yet this bike wont even stay happy in 6th at 120 at under 3000rpm any faster and the tickets are gonna start getting me so 6th is useless right now i also found that the bike goes higher top speed in 5th than in 6th it revs higher it doesn't have any more power to go any faster in 6th ill bet that ill find a higher top speed with the new 30t just cause it will allow it to keep pulling through 6th we will see
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yes this is definitely on my list im gonna go with the 30 t ill go as low as i can ill also go with the se comp to will im in there already have the chrome inner using the super tuner i looked at a recording and found at 193kph engine is only at 4613 rpm that's not even spinning yet the gearing might have been ok with a 96 over square engine with lots of bottom end torque offers good emissions and good fuel millage and no power but it aint good for a damn near square engine that likes a little higher rpm i find im rattling at low take of speeds and haven't even put all my camping gear and the lady on it yet this bike wont even stay happy in 6th at 120 at under 3000rpm any faster and the tickets are gonna start getting me so 6th is useless right now i also found that the bike goes higher top speed in 5th than in 6th it revs higher it doesn't have any more power to go any faster in 6th ill bet that ill find a higher top speed with the new 30t just cause it will allow it to keep pulling through 6th we will see
Well, that pretty much sums it up. I think. It's amazing how a thread can just die after a post like that. ;D
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Since day one of having the SERT installed in my my 08 SERK by the dealer and then the Super tuner put in again by the dealer, my bike has always performed like I was taking off in second gear. I have always had poor throttle responce and the answer is always the same, oh you have the early 08 TBW, sorry we can't fix that. And that was from many tuners, hopefully it will be addressed this winter. I'm going to have some minor work done this winter and have it tuned properly so the throttle lag is gone or at least reduced. If that doesn't help I will go with the 30T. Yeah I know stupid move going back to the dealer to fix a screw up only to get it back running even worse. I will add that my many test rides of the 2010's & the 2011's with the 110" had much better throttle responce than my current set up, so it can be done.
Ray G.
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Just did the 30 tooth sprocket and love the difference it made in 1st gear.
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i wonder what kind of difference i would feel ? on my cvo softail ...really thinkin hard of doing this also
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who do we order the parts from ?
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Lever,
I am getting ready to do the 30T to my Street Bob in conjunction
with the IPB that was beginning to fail.
I too have heard great things about it on the other forums for the
Dyna and Softail families.
I think you would like it on your Softail and I will report on how I like it for
my Street Bob.
ORDERED mine from: AXIOM – 07-149-0031
Tim
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I got my pulley from Andrews & the belt from HD.
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I like mine too. When i first installed it the 6th gear indicator did not work. I didn't try the cruise. A simple change in the Thundermax and all is well,lights working speedo is dead on cruise works. :)The only thing better would be the Baker DD7! If only money grew on trees ;D
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Does anyone know how many different 30t pulleys are available from various mfg's? Are they all up to the task? Trying to avoid any complications that seem to follow me like a homeless cat. It appears the use of the HD belt is common. I contacted Steve and plan to do the project sometimes this winter, I'm not sure where he gets his components but the people on this site seem to be satisfied with his kit. Just trying to gather all the info that I can. I replaced the SERT due to throttle lag issues and went to the Super tuner and it got worse, should have used the TTS. I plan to have it properly tuned this winter and have any recalibration done at the same time. Any recommendations while I'm getting this done.
Thanks
Ray G.
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Nothing wrong with a little more low end torque :nixweiss:
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I like mine too. When i first installed it the 6th gear indicator did not work. I didn't try the cruise. A simple change in the Thundermax and all is well,lights working speedo is dead on cruise works. :)The only thing better would be the Baker DD7! If only money grew on trees ;D
Had no issues with 6th gear light.
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2011 Tri Glide Trans Sprocket is P/N 83595-11 $62.41, discount price's. Anyone know the number for a '09 belt? ;)
HD does not have a 139T belt in 1"....soooooooooooooooo What belt are you using. Has anyone tryied a sportster wheel sproket....may be abale to use stock 140T 1" belt. I don't want to be trying to find an odd ball belt size on the road. Help Please.
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Is the 77560 Gates belt a good belt you can get these for a $115.00 139X1.00
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I also need the belt part number. Anyone have it :2vrolijk_21: :nixweiss:
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I also need the belt part number. Anyone have it :2vrolijk_21: :nixweiss:
Mine invoice shows p/n 40371-07. Did mine on the SERK4 a year ago, love it!
JW
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Greetings,
The Drag Specialties belt number is 12040064 which is a 1" 139T belt. The 30 tooth pulley is 12010227. These are the numbers for my 2009 S/E Roadglide which use a 140t belt and a 68 tooth sprocket stock. These are also correct for 2010 FLH models. The belt is a Drag house brand and the pulley is Andrews.
I believe that 07 -08 used a 137T belt and a 66 tooth rear sprocket so your numbers my be differrent for those years. The HD 40056-07 is a 136T 1" belt so that would most likely work on the 07-08 models.
I still get a discount from the dealer I used to work for so I did not buy them from Steve at Fullsac however if you do not have the same sweet deal I have I would encourage you to contact Steve at 928-505-2912. He can walk you through the purchase and make sure you get the correct parts for your bike.
Just as a funny the Drag 1" 139T belt cross references to a Buell Blast 1" belt # G0500.01A7. Would that belt work? Hell I don't know and the Buell parts are most likely hard to get now anyway.
Thanks to all that post.
SteveM
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Buy direct from Baker their website has all the imfo, pulley part numbers belt numbers etc. It's listed under hd cruise drive transmissions.
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Do you need to have the bike re-tuned after changing the sprocket?
Supershooter
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No re-tune would be necessary after a sprocket change.
It could very well feel like you had a re-tune though. :thumbsup:
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The SE comp is on my list too with all the good reviews. I will switch to from the 31T (2.96) to the 30T (3.06) at the same time.
I ran really heavy on this last trip and seen some serious headwinds at elevation. Even with the 107" making over 100HP and 110TQ I was in 5th gear
for over a 100 miles during one stretch out side of Cheyene hitting 30-40 MPH winds on Interstate 80. Milage dropped to 30. :coolblue:
Steve
For my current work (yes I'm still waiting for the dealership) I already have the SE Compensator (since it was apart.. no labor charge), New clutch hub (waranty issue, splines were cracked).
Now, since its already apart... the tech and I keep discussing the belt/pulley change since we're already there.
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No re-tune would be necessary after a sprocket change.
It could very well feel like you had a re-tune though. :thumbsup:
Seems the 6th gear indicator will be inop with this change, as well as the cruise control and the corresponding error in the speedo.
How do I correct this prior to me bringing the scoot home this week?
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Seems the 6th gear indicator will be inop with this change, as well as the cruise control and the corresponding error in the speedo.
How do I correct this prior to me bringing the scoot home this week?
I had the 30T put in some time ago. The 6th speed indicator and cruise control still operate. The speedo is off but if your using a TTS as a tuner, they can make the proper adjustments for this too. FTH.
JW
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Just finished the swap yesterday on my 2010 103. I love it. Six gear light comes on. No problem with the cruse control. The speedo reads a little higher . Gonna put on a GPS today and find out how much higher.
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Seen somewhere the -1 belt is HD 40056-07, is that right?
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I had the 30T put in some time ago. The 6th speed indicator and cruise control still operate. The speedo is off but if your using a TTS as a tuner, they can make the proper adjustments for this too. FTH.
JW
Youre right.. 6th gear indicator and cruise work fine... just the speedo was way fast...
Took me longer to re-read the TTS instructions than actually do the remap... :oops:
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Youre right.. 6th gear indicator and cruise work fine... just the speedo was way fast...
Took me longer to re-read the TTS instructions than actually do the remap... :oops:
I really enjoy the difference this mod made. :2vrolijk_21:
JW
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Seen somewhere the -1 belt is HD 40056-07, is that right?
Gates 77560 139t belt from Drag is what I found that worked on my 2010.
This gearing threw my speedo of about 10%
Gps reads 50mph = speedo reads 55mph
Gps reads 64mph = speedo reads 70mph
Dakota digital sells a speed correction box I put on mine and got it dead on but then the 6th gear light wouldnt work and the cruse wouldnt turn on. Seems the computer has a 5% correction error on the adjustment and anything outside that the computer wont know its in 6 th gear. But if you don`t mine the the speedo error everything works great.
From what I have read the TTS Mastertune letd you actually tell the ECM what the true gearing is and the speedo corrected to true ground speed .
ASK STEVE COLE
The bike is running on the torque curve like it should now.
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I have the HD tuner in my 2010 SEUC, am I going to be able to get the speedo and 6th gear light corrected with that that tuner?
Supershooter
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Not sure if or how this applies to you guys, but I'll share it anyway.
When I bought my bike I felt that 1st gear was too tall. If you got stuck in traffic you'd never get the cluch out... it was 15 MPH or nothing. I felt the rest of the gearing was fine. When I took the bike to the track, launching it was a challenge because it was either bog or wheelie, no middle ground. Bike was making 93/105 for power numbers with what would be a 'stage 1' on a Harley (airbox/pipes/controller).
Stock front pulley was 33 teeth. I found a company (TurboTec) who made a 31 tooth "Underdrive" pulley (approx 7% reduction in overall gearing) so I pony'd up the $300 and bought one. Installation was simple, took about 1/2 an hour. Definitely fixed that 1st-gear-too-tall issue.... what used to be 2500 RPM is now 2675... 175 more RPM is no big deal.
The speedo and tach read exactly the same as before because they can't "see" the reduction... however the speedo reading is 7% high (indicated 80 is actually 75 mph for real).
I took a long trip on the bike and for the trip I put the stock gearing back in... I regretted it the whole time... as soon as I got home the 31 tooth went back in and stayed there. Even though the bike is making some 37 HP and 35 ft/lbs more power now, I still like the shorter gearing better, no doubt.
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I have the HD tuner in my 2010 SEUC, am I going to be able to get the speedo and 6th gear light corrected with that that tuner?
Supershooter
I haven`t been able to. But I love the gearing ! :2vrolijk_21:
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DavidB, does your Cruise Control work after the change?
Supershooter
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DavidB, does your Cruise Control work after the change?
Supershooter
Yea,
It still works. But with the Dakota Digital speedo corrector I could only get the speedo calibrated to with in 5% correct form 10% off. Anymore and the speed control wont work. Wish I had installed the TTS instead of the Harley Race Tuner . The TTS will put the speedo dead on and still let the 6th gear light and C ruse control work.
Just swapping the pulley and doing nothing else, the cruse will work fine. The speedo just reads 10% off.
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DavidB, I'm not sure I'd change the sprocket if the cruise wouldn't work after the changes. We ride a fair amount of Interstate miles trying to get to where we want to ride. Is it worth the extra money to buy a TTS too?
Supershooter
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DavidB, I'm not sure I'd change the sprocket if the cruise wouldn't work after the changes. We ride a fair amount of Interstate miles trying to get to where we want to ride. Is it worth the extra money to buy a TTS too?
Supershooter
The cruise "will work" after the change. Never said I wouldn`t . As long as you don`t put a Dakota Digital speedo adjuster on it. That`s what screws up the Cruise control.
As far as the TTS I wouldn`t put it on just to correct a speedometer.
But there the best INMOP if you want to tune the motor.
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2011 Tri Glide Trans Sprocket is P/N 83595-11 $62.41, discount price's. Anyone know the number for a '09 belt? ;)
HD does not have a 139T belt in 1"....soooooooooooooooo What belt are you using. Has anyone tryied a sportster wheel sproket....may be abale to use stock 140T 1" belt. I don't want to be trying to find an odd ball belt size on the road. Help Please.
:nixweiss: I see that you are referencing a Harley trans pulley that is (indeed) a 30toother. As you say, it's for the 2011 Tri Glide. Now, I understand I can go to Andrews or Baker and get a 30 tooth Trans sprocket(pulley), but this HD one may be an alternative.
However, the Tri Glide uses a 1 1/8" belt while my '09 Ultra uses a 1" belt............so I'm interested as to whether the Tri Glide pulley will work and fit on my '09 Ultra if I get the cooresponding (one tooth less) Drag Specialties 139 tooth 1" belt to complete the package :drink:
Since the picture (in HD parts diagrams) shows (no) lip on that pulley on the outer side, question is will it fit and will it work with a 1" belt.
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moscooter, I would just call Steve at Fullsac and have him send you the sprocket and pulley you need.
Supershooter
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I hope the tri-glide pulley will work. I bought one for my 09 fltrse3. I am having it installed this weekend. I am attaching pics of the pulley.
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another
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another
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another
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another
Same Harley pulley I put on mine. Works great :2vrolijk_21:
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:2vrolijk_21:
So Badbagg.......Good luck with the conversion and keep us posted. I assume you are also going with a Drag Specialties 139 tooth (1") belt too.
I see you already have the TTS deal to be able to readjust your speedo.........That I do not have.
If you have not done so already, are you considering swapping out the compensator for the newer, stronger SE compensator as some others have apparently done...... :nixweiss:
Since you gotta get in there that far to swap out the pulley, it would be a good time to make that change also. On the other hand, I haven't had any problems with my stock comp as is.
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For 09 I recall the speedo correction factor being 2303....
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:nixweiss: I see that you are referencing a Harley trans pulley that is (indeed) a 30toother. As you say, it's for the 2011 Tri Glide. Now, I understand I can go to Andrews or Baker and get a 30 tooth Trans sprocket(pulley), but this HD one may be an alternative.
However, the Tri Glide uses a 1 1/8" belt while my '09 Ultra uses a 1" belt............so I'm interested as to whether the Tri Glide pulley will work and fit on my '09 Ultra if I get the cooresponding (one tooth less) Drag Specialties 139 tooth 1" belt to complete the package :drink:
Since the picture (in HD parts diagrams) shows (no) lip on that pulley on the outer side, question is will it fit and will it work with a 1" belt.
Yes
The belt will center itself off the rear pulley. I put the same setup on my '10 and it works just fine!
To those questioning the cost effectiveness of "going all the way" with the TTS to just correct speedo error, probably not.
BUT with the TTS it opens so much more for getting the heat issues under control, adjusting the throttle sensitivity, etc, etc. not to mention you'll probably gain 10HP with a good dyno operator. Hard to say, but, IMO, it's a good "bang for the buck"!
Hope this helps a bit. :2vrolijk_21:
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:2vrolijk_21:
So Badbagg.......Good luck with the conversion and keep us posted. I assume you are also going with a Drag Specialties 139 tooth (1") belt too.
I see you already have the TTS deal to be able to readjust your speedo.........That I do not have.
If you have not done so already, are you considering swapping out the compensator for the newer, stronger SE compensator as some others have apparently done...... :nixweiss:
Since you gotta get in there that far to swap out the pulley, it would be a good time to make that change also. On the other hand, I haven't had any problems with my stock comp as is.
Havent had any problems with the compensator either. Wasnt going to change it , although it would be the best time. I am using the drag belt that you mentioned. I will let you know how it turns out.
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I also just had the 30-T Sprocket swapped on my 11' Street Glide. The lower gearing is perfect for my style of riding. Quick as a cat. I bought the TTS Mastertuner with the Stage II Kit from Fullsac with the Woods 555 Night Prowler Cams & 2.25" Cores. Had all the work done at one time. Needles to say, my SG does not sound and perform like a Vespa anymore! LOL
The Speedo Correction on my bike was 2251.
Now I'm heading in my garage to swap out the Halogen Headlight for the New Black LED Headlight. I will post pics ASAP
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before with Halogen
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I also just had the 30-T Sprocket swapped on my 11' Street Glide. The lower gearing is perfect for my style of riding. Quick as a cat. I bought the TTS Mastertuner with the Stage II Kit from Fullsac with the Woods 555 Night Prowler Cams & 2.25" Cores. Had all the work done at one time. Needles to say, my SG does not sound and perform like a Vespa anymore! LOL
The Speedo Correction on my bike was 2251.
Now I'm heading in my garage to swap out the Halogen Headlight for the New Black LED Headlight. I will post pics ASAP
After this weekends ride, I noted that the wifes Road King showed about a 5 mile difference on the trip meter after the days ride. (95 miles)
I took a look at my correction factor and I had incorrectly entered the tire size. The 180/55-18" tire is slightly taller than the 180/65-16.. making the speedo read slower than actual road speed.
The correct speedo ciorrection factor with the 30T and the 180/55-18 is 2251.
Thanks to Poopy for posting this up.
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I'm thinking of doing this up-grade to my 2010 seuc. The only thing I've done to my bike is a Fullsac header pipe and 2.5" rush mufflers. I do have a tts unit but,
haven't installed yet. I do a lot of 2up riding mainly in Michigan, any other advice would be appreciated. Chilly
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I'm thinking of doing this up-grade to my 2010 seuc. The only thing I've done to my bike is a Fullsac header pipe and 2.5" rush mufflers. I do have a tts unit but,
haven't installed yet. I do a lot of 2up riding mainly in Michigan, any other advice would be appreciated. Chilly
You will love it....
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I'm thinking of doing this 30T upgrade along with the 2.00" fulsacs baffles and the TTS and the Andrews 54 cams got the new SE compensator also. Currently got the primary open for the install of the new SE compensator and was curious what this 30T will do to the gas mileage? Should I get the Woods 555 cam in lieu of the Andrews 54 along with the 30T? Any input would be appreciated!
Thanks
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I tried this on my 2010 ultra back in the summer of 2010. We couldn't find the right belt fro the job. I have a 2011 RG now. Will this work on the 2011 with the same parts? I did this to my 2007 SECUSE and it was one of the best mods I made on that bike. Just made my speedo off a bit. With the TTS now I could recalibrate that if I can do it to my newest bike.
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go to www.fullsac.com or call Steve at 925-505-2912 or email him at info@fullsac.com
He will help you immensely!
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I'm thinking of doing this 30T upgrade along with the 2.00" fulsacs baffles and the TTS and the Andrews 54 cams got the new SE compensator also. Currently got the primary open for the install of the new SE compensator and was curious what this 30T will do to the gas mileage? Should I get the Woods 555 cam in lieu of the Andrews 54 along with the 30T? Any input would be appreciated!
Thanks
I havent noticed a drop in mileage.... except that I tend to enjoy the throttle even more... so yeah..
Depending on your riding style the 555 will give you more on the top end, but to be honest, the 54's are perfect for in the zone riding....
I finally got the laptop out to the bike this evening and corrected speedo error (I forgot to calculate for the 18" rear tire) with the TTS. correction factor is 2251 ( I think) for the 09 SERG with the 30T conversion.
I'll ride it for a week and see exactly where I am.
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go to www.fullsac.com or call Steve at 925-505-2912 or email him at info@fullsac.com
He will help you immensely!
Done. Thanks!
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:nixweiss: I see that you are referencing a Harley trans pulley that is (indeed) a 30toother. As you say, it's for the 2011 Tri Glide. Now, I understand I can go to Andrews or Baker and get a 30 tooth Trans sprocket(pulley), but this HD one may be an alternative.
However, the Tri Glide uses a 1 1/8" belt while my '09 Ultra uses a 1" belt............so I'm interested as to whether the Tri Glide pulley will work and fit on my '09 Ultra if I get the cooresponding (one tooth less) Drag Specialties 139 tooth 1" belt to complete the package :drink:
Since the picture (in HD parts diagrams) shows (no) lip on that pulley on the outer side, question is will it fit and will it work with a 1" belt.
[/quote
Intsalled the tri-glide pulley and drag belt on my 09 fltrse3. no issues. def worth doing.
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It appears that obtaining a complete kit from Steve @ Fullsak is still a ways off. I tried to keep my business with those who help us on the CVOForum. I called a few suppliers and they are talking May before the sprockets are available. I see a few have used the wider one from HD that was for the Trike, does anyone see a potential problem down the road using the wider sprocket? My bike is all apart and ready for the install, I would hate to put it all back together and do it over again in May or June. It's been a long winter and I'm looking forward to my first long ride. Could someone supply me with the correct HD part numbers for the sprocket and belt. I will call it in along with the SE Compensator with one of our 20% vendors.
I really appreciate the help.
Thank You
Ray G.
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It appears that obtaining a complete kit from Steve @ Fullsak is still a ways off. I tried to keep my business with those who help us on the CVOForum. I called a few suppliers and they are talking May before the sprockets are available. I see a few have used the wider one from HD that was for the Trike, does anyone see a potential problem down the road using the wider sprocket? My bike is all apart and ready for the install, I would hate to put it all back together and do it over again in May or June. It's been a long winter and I'm looking forward to my first long ride. Could someone supply me with the correct HD part numbers for the sprocket and belt. I will call it in along with the SE Compensator with one of our 20% vendors.
I really appreciate the help.
Thank You
Ray G.
The pulley is 83595-11 the belt is from Drag, 139T, sorry, don't have the part # for that.
Drag, Baker, Andrews all have the pulleys, price varies.
I'm using the H-D one and Drag belt, so far about 5000 miles on the setup and it's working just fine!
FWIW: I also used one of the members here for my purchase. Fullsac. Ordered on Monday, received on Wednesday. :2vrolijk_21:
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It appears that obtaining a complete kit from Steve @ Fullsak is still a ways off. I tried to keep my business with those who help us on the CVOForum. I called a few suppliers and they are talking May before the sprockets are available. I see a few have used the wider one from HD that was for the Trike, does anyone see a potential problem down the road using the wider sprocket? My bike is all apart and ready for the install, I would hate to put it all back together and do it over again in May or June. It's been a long winter and I'm looking forward to my first long ride. Could someone supply me with the correct HD part numbers for the sprocket and belt. I will call it in along with the SE Compensator with one of our 20% vendors.
I really appreciate the help.
Thank You
Ray G.
You can still get a belt from him and a gear from Andrews. I just got a belt from him (ordered) yesterday. I already had the gear (which is on back order thru him I believe).
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:cherry:
The part # I have for Drag Specialties 1" (139T) belt is p/n 1204-0064.
My HD dealer just got one in for me as well as the SE comp. the tri-glide 30T pulley is on back order. They are tracking delivery for me now.
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I have a belt and pulley for sale if anyone needs the set up. PM me for details.
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Well I ordered the pulley and belt a few weeks ago but they were on back order. Fullsac called and they came in. Being shipped out today. Hopefully
here before, so I can install before weekend. Going to put pulley & belt on and test before installing my TTS. My brother Jerdawg wants to see what
difference each step makes. Chilly
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Hi Steve, I have your stage one kit with K&N high flow air filter and I am really happy with it on my 09 seuc. Also I don't have any issues with the stock gearing even with luggage and passenger, and I have been on some pretty long trips thru various twisty side roads and freeway.(Last one was from Simi Valley, CA. to Gordon Nebraska and back).I just don't understand why so many people want to change their front pulley and belt. Maybe this has already been addressed, but don't you have to remove the swing arm when you change the belt? I had to do it on my Heritage, but I haven't seen it mentioned on this post, or maybe I just missed it. Things on my 09 will stay as they are for now(your fuel map is great), but if something breaks (knock on wood ) then I will upgrade to Andrews 54 cams and the thinner head gaskets. Thanks for your great customer service and telephone time. CAHDBIKER
The SE comp is on my list too with all the good reviews. I will switch to from the 31T (2.96) to the 30T (3.06) at the same time.
I ran really heavy on this last trip and seen some serious headwinds at elevation. Even with the 107" making over 100HP and 110TQ I was in 5th gear
for over a 100 miles during one stretch out side of Cheyene hitting 30-40 MPH winds on Interstate 80. Milage dropped to 30. :coolblue:
Steve
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:cherry:
CAHD....Out of curiosity, it would be interesting to know just what or which model bike you had (before) the '09 you are now happy with (gearing-wise).
While I can't speak for all of us who want to gear down some, I will tell ya in my case the difference between my '09 SE Ultra 110 and my last Harley, ('01 Road King Classic 95), the (out of the hole) in low gear is significantly different.
Final (overall) gearing on the '01 was 3.37, whereas the '09 final gearing is 2.87
The 30 tooth gear mentioned will bring the final ratio back up about 6.6% or ratio of 3.06. A lot closer.
That will make getting an 850 pound plus HOG moving from a dead stop much easier and also make 6th gear more usable on the high end.
Can one manage OK with the stock gearing??? Yup, I've done it too, (2 up and loaded down) going to Sturgis across Nebraska and back. Did many twisty, and tight roads up in the Black Hills and elsewhere but had to gear down toooooooooooooo many times as a result of gearing that is NOT as low as it should be (IMO).
In reality, the 3.37 on the (FUEL INJECTED) models of a few yrs ago was in fact slightly lower than the carberated models were (gearing-wise). According to a very reliable Harley source, that was done to make the FI bikes perform as well as the Carbed bikes. :-\ True or not, I got used to the John Deere "grunt" easy out of the hole gearing and quickly found out I did'nt like the slip the clutch and over rev to get moving that the '09 with over a 100 HP and torque still required.
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. :2vrolijk_21:
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Hi Steve, I have your stage one kit with K&N high flow air filter and I am really happy with it on my 09 seuc. Also I don't have any issues with the stock gearing even with luggage and passenger, and I have been on some pretty long trips thru various twisty side roads and freeway.(Last one was from Simi Valley, CA. to Gordon Nebraska and back).I just don't understand why so many people want to change their front pulley and belt. Maybe this has already been addressed, but don't you have to remove the swing arm when you change the belt? I had to do it on my Heritage, but I haven't seen it mentioned on this post, or maybe I just missed it. Things on my 09 will stay as they are for now(your fuel map is great), but if something breaks (knock on wood ) then I will upgrade to Andrews 54 cams and the thinner head gaskets. Thanks for your great customer service and telephone time. CAHDBIKER
Hey CAHDBIKER
Glad your happy with my parts!
Yes, the swingarm must be removed to install the belt. Its no big deal. Only held in by one bolt, sorta. Why so many lowering the gearing?
Improved performance. Simple as that. The 3.06 gearing feels like you added 10 HP everytime you roll the throttle. If you roll heavy, you will like it.
I don't think I have ever heard of anyone that didnt like it? Even Hogmike likes it! He's hard to impress.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance.
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does anyone know what the fuel econimy drops, if any, going to the 30T, on a road trip? With stock at 80 mph i'm running 3000 rpm. I assume with the 30T you are running 3300 or so rpm?
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Hey CAHDBIKER
Glad your happy with my parts!
Yes, the swingarm must be removed to install the belt. Its no big deal. Only held in by one bolt, sorta. Why so many lowering the gearing?
Improved performance. Simple as that. The 3.06 gearing feels like you added 10 HP everytime you roll the throttle. If you roll heavy, you will like it.
I don't think I have ever heard of anyone that didnt like it? Even Hogmike likes it! He's hard to impress.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance.
HUH? Who, me?
I got invited to Laughlin River Run this week, guess I'll blow off most of the parties and come down to harass you again!
8)
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HUH? Who, me?
I got invited to Laughlin River Run this week, guess I'll blow off most of the parties and come down to harass you again!
8)
We will have product displayed at the Riverside Resort, far north end of the strip.
Harass me at about 5 pm with a couple of beers!
Steve
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does anyone know what the fuel economy drops, if any, going to the 30T, on a road trip? With stock at 80 mph i'm running 3000 rpm. I assume with the 30T you are running 3300 or so rpm?
At 80 mph, your fuel milage will remain the same, not very good. Lol.. 3250 RPM at 80 mph, you nailed it.
Steve
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Im sure i lost a little economy cruising ????, but my tts fixed that some. in the closed loop bios table , but I do know, I don't down shift hardly at all, I lost very little any if you figure that in averaging things out. That "just turn the throttle" works great, no higher rpms downshifting to pass anymore, Here in central Pa. in the mountains is soooo nice, but then a stg 4 107 you have a tendency to keeeeeeep on going, Im getting 42 mpg now. But when you do downshift with a 30 pulley WOW!!!! I did the S.E. compensator at the same time also, So with both pulling out in 1st is much much nicer
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Just broke my BDL-SPC-139-1 Falcon. Is there a stronger belt out there 2010 FLHXSE would a Gates work better?
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:cherry:
Well, the damn 30T (tri-glide) sprocket has been on back order for many weeks. Finally, mine showed up and I'm now waiting for the swap out to better gearing. I took note on the way to the dealers, that while in 5th gear, at 60 MPH, I was taching about 2600 RPMs.
When I get it back, I'll do a compare at 2600 RPMs and see what speed shows up. :nixweiss:
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:cherry:
Well, the damn 30T (tri-glide) sprocket has been on back order for many weeks. Finally, mine showed up and I'm now waiting for the swap out to better gearing. I took note on the way to the dealers, that while in 5th gear, at 60 MPH, I was taching about 2600 RPMs.
When I get it back, I'll do a compare at 2600 RPMs and see what speed shows up. :nixweiss:
Mines still on backorder!
:(
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Hey Krazze,
You may want to consider contacting a high performance indy shop that carries parts from a number of vendors to get the best belt for your bike, they should be able to tell you what works best especially for higher Hp bikes. I just did the 30T sprocket and 135T belt and frankly I don't want to put another belt on for quite some time. I had to borrow tools from a number of people to get the job done. The improvement is everything people on this site rave about but doing it yourself proved to be challenging for me anyway. Since Steve was out of sprockets and belts at the time I ended up using the Andrews sprocket and a Drag belt. I hope this hold up, but I did had to tighten the belt after 100 miles or so.
Please let us know how you make out on your belt issue.
Good Luck
Ray G.
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Krazze,
I installed the same Falcon belt when I installed the 30t sprocket with no problems to date. A couple questions....how many miles on the belt? After initial install did you check/re-tighten the belt after the first 100miles....and then again after the next 500-1000miles. A brand new belt will stretch and needs to seat properly after initial install. If not, the slack in the belt could be the cause of it snapping. Just strange that a carbon-fiber reinforced belt would give out if this mod was recently accomplished and properly installed.
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:cherry:
Jz3 is on the right track according to this commentary............(note the very last line....."tricks of the trade")
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hdbeltdrive.htm
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had about 4000 miles on the belt. I got a belt from gates on order. Will see if it is stronger. May have to be a little easier on the throttle.
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had about 4000 miles on the belt. I got a belt from gates on order. Will see if it is stronger. May have to be a little easier on the throttle.
Got my belt from Drag....30t...100hp.....2-up, loaded, pulling a trailer, no problems! :2vrolijk_21:
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:cherry:
Just picked up my bike from having the gear swap done. 30T from the tri-glide plus the (-1T belt) and replacing the stk comp with the SE comp while in there. Does seem to pull harder thru the gears and make the 6th gear more usable than before.
Didn't seem to me that the rpms really changed all that much, hard to be precise without a digital readout.
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got my 139t gates belt on last week and all good so far. PC-139-1. Looks a little better than the falcon I had guess I will find out. Put about 400 miles on it this past weekend.
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I'm going to bring a brand new Andrews 30T gear and belt to Ribfest. If anyone is interested PM me.
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:nixweiss:
Rob......Out of curiousity, (assuming you're going to that fest on your bike), how are ya gonna carry that belt :confused5:
My "stock" belt is still at the dealers after my swap. I wanted all the old parts back, but that belt is in a box that is pretty awkward and (long) in size to carry on a bike. Reason being..........You are NOT supposed to bend those belts in too small of a radius (can't remember the limit), but if you do, you risk damaging the belt fibers and significantly shortening the "life" of the belt. So I will be picking my old one up from the dealers via my truck.
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:nixweiss:
Rob......Out of curiousity, (assuming you're going to that fest on your bike), how are ya gonna carry that belt :confused5:
My "stock" belt is still at the dealers after my swap. I wanted all the old parts back, but that belt is in a box that is pretty awkward and (long) in size to carry on a bike. Reason being..........You are NOT supposed to bend those belts in too small of a radius (can't remember the limit), but if you do, you risk damaging the belt fibers and significantly shortening the "life" of the belt. So I will be picking my old one up from the dealers via my truck.
no smaller than the radius of the pulley.
I doubled mine over and set it in the tour pack.
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:nixweiss:
Rob......Out of curiousity, (assuming you're going to that fest on your bike), how are ya gonna carry that belt :confused5:
My "stock" belt is still at the dealers after my swap. I wanted all the old parts back, but that belt is in a box that is pretty awkward and (long) in size to carry on a bike. Reason being..........You are NOT supposed to bend those belts in too small of a radius (can't remember the limit), but if you do, you risk damaging the belt fibers and significantly shortening the "life" of the belt. So I will be picking my old one up from the dealers via my truck.
The belt is still in the box I got from Steve at Fullsac. The gear is also in the original box. I actually installed the gear on my 2010 Ultra but couldn't find the right size belt at the time so I removed it and placed it back in the box. I paid around $330.00 for the pair and will sell them both for $200.00.
I drove my truck so the belt is safe and sound! :2vrolijk_21:
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The belt is still in the box I got from Steve at Fullsac. The gear is also in the original box. I actually installed the gear on my 2010 Ultra but couldn't find the right size belt at the time so I removed it and placed it back in the box. I paid around $330.00 for the pair and will sell them both for $200.00.
I drove my truck so the belt is safe and sound! :2vrolijk_21:
PM sent.
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Thanks Dan, PM right back atcha!
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After all that reading, I am still not sure of what belt to run.....
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:confused5:
Fast3... It's not rocket science, if your setup is stock, you run the stock belt. If you are dropping the trans sprocket to 30T and your original setup was identical to mine, you need a belt with (one less) tooth.
Let us know what you're trying to do to alter your gearing and someone here can nail down just what belt change you might need. :drink:
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Yep, my bad!! I was at work, all along I had planned on ordering the tri-glide belt also, didn't realize the belt was a different size.... OOPs. Here is all the info from this thread condensed, now I just have to figure out what to use.
HD Tri-Glide Pulley 83595-11
Andrews pulley 1201-0227
Drag Specialties Belt 1204-0064
Gates Belt 77560
falcon Belt BDL-SPC-139-1
gates belt PC-139-1
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Just when I thought I was done with mods for this year, I stumble across this thread :-\
I've read through all the pages of this, but I just want to clarify a couple things- so if the Tri glide 30T belt pulley works fine (at $62.23 discounted price), why bother with the Andrews or the Baker (which go for $135.00-$203.00)? I'm guessing because the Tri Glide is a bit wider, but will still work?
It looks like last year there weren't any 139T belts around, but from what I gather now, HD has one, right? Any advantage to the other brands?
After all this reading, I guess part of this mod should really be the SE compensator as well- another $210.00 to add on.
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Just when I thought I was done with mods for this year, I stumble across this thread :-\
I've read through all the pages of this, but I just want to clarify a couple things- so if the Tri glide 30T belt pulley works fine (at $62.23 discounted price), why bother with the Andrews or the Baker (which go for $135.00-$203.00)? I'm guessing because the Tri Glide is a bit wider, but will still work?
It looks like last year there weren't any 139T belts around, but from what I gather now, HD has one, right? Any advantage to the other brands?
After all this reading, I guess part of this mod should really be the SE compensator as well- another $210.00 to add on.
:cherry:
You're thinking about making the same swaps that I did. First of all, the tri-glide sprocket is wider because the TG uses a slightlly wider belt. No matter, as it still fits on other models and the narrower belt "centers itself" on that sprocket and all is OK. As to the brands of belts, I cannot speak for one versus the other, I'm not sure that you are correct that there is a 139T from HD (in the 1" size). Not sure just which company makes the belts that carry the HD logo, I went with the 139T belt from Drag Specialties and I also had the SE comp installed during the swap.
The gearing is now a lot better and closer to what I was used to on my old RK Classic which had the final 3.37:1 gearing. It's only a little over a 6% gearing increase, but as I said it's better and the swap did not mess up my cruise control............still works OK
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Is there any change in gas mileage when you do this conversion?
:nixweiss:
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:nixweiss:
I've not yet been able to tell any real difference. In fact, I have not yet had someone with a "stock" bike or car ride along side and help me validate how close (or far off) my speedo is (which would effect the odometer as well).
So far, I'm not thinkin' there is that much of an error in the speedo...........but will verify that pretty soon.
Meantime, I would speculate that the milage (given the type of riding you're doing, just might be better......not worse). Less down shifting and better usage (wider range) of both 5th and 6th gear. For example, if your's gets worse, and you used to get 45 MPG, the ratio change is 6.6% so worst case, would be your milage could drop by a little less than 3 MPG. BFD :drink:
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I wonder if the 31T would be better for relaxed highway cruising at 70-75 mph? Wonder how much more felt power it would be- only going down one tooth...might not make enough difference to be worth all that cost and effort....I dunno, maybe better going for the 30T, as long as it doesn't make the bike feel like it's only a 5 speed.
Btw, Phats Performance Parts has the Andrews 30T for $115.00 and free shipping. Also pondering if it's better to go with the Andrews for a few bucks more since it is the proper 1" version, or go with the HD Tri-Glide pulley, since you all say the belt centers itself on this wider pulley.
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Here is some info from Baker's website:
30-tooth or 31-tooth h-d® 2006-up cruise drive™ pulleys
Get more oomph from a throttle-wick on your 2007 stock Harley-Davidson FL. Our 30-Tooth or 31-Tooth transmission pulleys effectively ‘gear down’ the bike to optimize the performance in two major ways.
First, you’ll get more torque and power from the take-off gears. This remedies the common criticism of the new bikes being a little sluggish off the line for some riders.
Second, you can utilize the 6th gear at a slower, more reasonable highway speed for a more comfortable RPM. These pulleys bring the cruising gears down a notch for finessing your ride.
Performance details are as follow:
Increase Rear Wheel Torque (30T- 7% Increase / 31T- 3% Increase)
Cruising RPM 6th gear (75MPH) 30T @ 2830 / 31T @ 2756 No more lugging the motor in 6th gear at lower cruising speeds (60-70 MPH)
Answers my question- only 74 RPM difference at 75 mph between the 30T and the 31T
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You can run the Tri-Glide pulley and get a belt for a Buell Blast which is a 139 tooth 1" belt. Brother called
Dealer and belt was around 90 dollars. Chilly
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Is the Buell blast belt heavy enough for a bigger v twinn,?? Im asking because i just replaced the first 139t belt with another bdl falcon one it was 200.00, mustve been that last big wheelie that stripped the teeth for about 1 ft,
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You can run the Tri-Glide pulley and get a belt for a Buell Blast which is a 139 tooth 1" belt. Brother called
Dealer and belt was around 90 dollars. Chilly
Whats the part number on the Buell Belt ?
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Woo Hoo! Out for a ride today and heard a loud clunk coming from the isolator sprocket. Normally that would pi$$ me off to no end. Looks like I'm going to have to pull it off to check it all out. Therefore...while I'm in there... might as well change the gear and belt. We'll see what happens.
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Is the Buell blast belt heavy enough for a bigger v twinn,?? Im asking because i just replaced the first 139t belt with another bdl falcon one it was 200.00, mustve been that last big wheelie that stripped the teeth for about 1 ft,
For no good reason, I don't like the sounds of using a belt that works on the Buell Blast- the Gates Poly PC-199-1 is $139.50 at Belt Drives.com
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I,m don't know what the number of the belt is, my brother is going to try this on his ride. He has the pulley on order. The BDL Falcon #602-611 thru J&P Cycles.
When He does the change I'll put up a post. Chilly
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I,m don't know what the number of the belt is, my brother is going to try this on his ride. He has the pulley on order. The BDL Falcon #602-611 thru J&P Cycles.
When He does the change I'll put up a post. Chilly
I put a gates poly on mine and got into lake placed two weeks ago when I picked up a rock.
3 days later I was back on the road again after finding a Falcon.
Thats the only downside with being on the road with a non stock belt.
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I put a gates poly on mine and got into lake placed two weeks ago when I picked up a rock.
3 days later I was back on the road again after finding a Falcon.
Thats the only downside with being on the road with a non stock belt.
I don't get it- do you have your belt guard on? Even if you did, a rock could make it's way in there and cause a problem regardless of what brand belt you have on.
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I don't get it- do you have your belt guard on? Even if you did, a rock could make it's way in there and cause a problem regardless of what brand belt you have on.
The difficulty wouldn't be because of the non-OE brand but because of the non-OE size. Shops are only going to stock or be familiar with ready availability for the standard sizes. Make a change to something outside the norm and we can't expect the shops to be ready for it.
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I don't get it- do you have your belt guard on? Even if you did, a rock could make it's way in there and cause a problem regardless of what brand belt you have on.
Had the belt guard on, but the Harley belt guard is only half of what it was in 97. Not sure when they changed it. If I can find the Buell number for a belt some shops could possibly have it in stock.
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:-\
DB.....You need to quit smoking those damn cigarettes, it appears it's effecting your eyesight too with those thick glasses like I have. :drink:
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The difficulty wouldn't be because of the non-OE brand but because of the non-OE size. Shops are only going to stock or be familiar with ready availability for the standard sizes. Make a change to something outside the norm and we can't expect the shops to be ready for it.
Oh, sorry I get it- 139T harder to find and not stocked by the dealers.
I am definitely looking at doing this mod, along with the SE compensator-how many have been able to get the dealer to cover the compensator under warranty? Maybe just a couple catch phrases put into a complaint about chattering? ;)
Sounds to me if HD was an auto manufacturer, this would have been a recall....they (auto mfg's) recall everything that they even SUSPECT could be an issue- not sure how the Moco can get away with being different.
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Too bad harley doesnt carry a emergency repair belt for 07 and up. The older one they carry is # 40112-97 and is for 97 to 06 139 tooth emergency belt but it's not 1 in wide I thought of trying to make one like the old temp. repair belt, I was going look if i could to drill quite a few teeth and tap or try to use self tapping allen head screws like the factory one, make it tapered by cutting it "V" shaped end to fit like the old style. Dont know if it would work . I'm still trying to figure the taper angles, hole sizes It may work may not, But i to feel traveling around with a odd length is kinda not good especially across country
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Too bad harley doesnt carry a emergency repair belt for 07 and up. The older one they carry is # 40112-97 and is for 97 to 06 139 tooth emergency belt but it's not 1 in wide I thought of trying to make one like the old temp. repair belt, I was going look if i could to drill quite a few teeth and tap or try to use self tapping allen head screws like the factory one, make it tapered by cutting it "V" shaped end to fit like the old style. Dont know if it would work . I'm still trying to figure the taper angles, hole sizes It may work may not, But i to feel traveling around with a odd length is kinda not good especially across country
That might be a reason to just go for the 31T pulley, since the stock belt will work, although not recommended- it should get you by in a pinch.
I'm sure I want to do this mod, along with the SE compensator, but now I just have to decide on the 30T or 31T- I just don't want to lose that relaxing purr on the highway in sixth feeling too much.
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the same relaxing purrrr is still there, just a lot more responsive
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I second that. Why waste the time and same expense for little increase in performance. I went to the 30 tooth and love the extra driveability I got. I can let out the
clutch in first with out using throttle when in tight areas and not worry about slipping clutch. Chilly
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Mine is at the shop having the 30T done right now! I'm using Harleys pulley and Drags belt. It'll be nice starting out in 1st gear again. :pepper:
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How did you start out before????
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OK... I'm confused... I'm doing 74 (according to the speedo) at 3K.... (corrected with TTS)
yet the OP says 80 at 3K... ? same bike, same gear ratio.. the only thing I see a potential problem is the correction factor in the software... the correct number is here someplace....
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How did you start out before????
[/
quote]
Ha Ha. It obviously felt more like 2nd. Picked it up today. Steve and all you folks on here are right. What a difference! Haven't had time to readjust the speedo yet, but I'm happy with the result.
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:nixweiss:
"yet the OP says 80 at 3K... ?"
:-\
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:nixweiss:
"yet the OP says 80 at 3K... ?"
:-\
From the original post:
RPM... 80mph-3000rpm
90mph-3400rpm
100mph-3800rpm
I'm doing 74MPH (speedo) at 3K
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Haven't done mine yet, but when I asked Steve George about the speedo reprogam with 30T and TTS, he said to ad 50 points to the recalculated value to get a good base. Then check it with a good GPS for accuracy. FWIW
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I second that. Why waste the time and same expense for little increase in performance. I went to the 30 tooth and love the extra driveability I got. I can let out the
clutch in first with out using throttle when in tight areas and not worry about slipping clutch. Chilly
I don't have an issue with 6th gear- I don't lug it in sixth, because I'll just keep it in fifth until it's ready to be kicked up into sixth. Maybe it's an issue if you're always on a road with a 55-60 mph limit- maybe that's a speed that some consider to be in between fifth and sixth gear. When I'm on the highway, it's 70-75 mph, so being at 2600 or whatever it's at is fine with me.
I do agree with the take off in first gear, so maybe the 31T will help that enough. I also want to feel some more torque and acceleration, and that's my other reason for considering the mod- well, also for the reason of having the upgraded SE compensator.
I came from a 5 speed Yamaha that was buzzy on the highway, and I want to be sure I won't end up with the same- I really like the smoothness of this bike on the highway at 70-75 mph.
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From the original post:
I'm doing 74MPH (speedo) at 3K
I'll bet the reason is that 2009_FLTRSEI3 has already made his speedo correction with his TTS (so it is accurate), whereas all of us have the factory speedos which are optimistic. So 74 real speed for him is 80 displayed speed for us.
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I'll bet the reason is that 2009_FLTRSEI3 has already made his speedo correction with his TTS (so it is accurate), whereas all of us have the factory speedos which are optimistic. So 74 real speed for him is 80 displayed speed for us.
Possibly... I had originally set the correction factor from original incorrectly.... I used tire size from the CUSE (it was the default size in the drop down menu and I missed it)
The correction factor is posted elsewhere in this thread. I havent tried the GPS on my phone to validate speed...
Though I did have some clear road today so I rolled into it in 6th...
3K = ~74 MPH
3.5K = ~86 MPH
Will look for a little more road with space to try 4K.... 98 MPH?
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Possibly... I had originally set the correction factor from original incorrectly.... I used tire size from the CUSE (it was the default size in the drop down menu and I missed it)
The correction factor is posted elsewhere in this thread. I havent tried the GPS on my phone to validate speed...
Though I did have some clear road today so I rolled into it in 6th...
3K = ~74 MPH
3.5K = ~86 MPH
Will look for a little more road with space to try 4K.... 98 MPH?
So numbers aside, do you like the mod, or do you feel that it is revving too high at highway speeds? As you can see, I'm debating between 30T and 31T, what are your thoughts?
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Here is a good info page from Andrews- not sure if this was already posted- this is a long thread.
http://www.andrewsproducts.com/PDF_files/catalog/29_BeltPulleys-pg29.pdf
Pulleys: 2007 - 2011 Baggers
Final Drive Ratio (’07 & ’08) = 2.79 with stk 32 T pulley
Final Drive Ratio (’07 & ’08) = 2.97 with AP 30 T pulley
Final Drive Ratio (’09 & ’11) = 2.87 with stk HD 32T pulley
Final Drive Ratio (’09 & ’11) = 2.97 with AP 31T pulley (OK w/stock belt)
Interesting that dropping down two teeth in an 07-08 model (30T), gives you the same final drive ratio as dropping down one tooth (31T) in a 09-11 model (which is 2.97).
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So numbers aside, do you like the mod, or do you feel that it is revving too high at highway speeds? As you can see, I'm debating between 30T and 31T, what are your thoughts?
Looking at what you posted as your build (basically stock, right?)
Question is, what speed do you usually ride? There would be a deciding factor IMO from a 30 to 31 depending on your cruising speed.
Example:
Out here, I cruise the freeways at 75-85 most of the time, and with my build the 30T is perfect. I tow a trailer on long trips, thus the 30T
I can get to 100 pretty quick (closed course!) 8) but don't go there often. My bike is at 100HP and 100TQ.
Just food for thought.
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Looking at what you posted as your build (basically stock, right?)
Question is, what speed do you usually ride? There would be a deciding factor IMO from a 30 to 31 depending on your cruising speed.
Example:
Out here, I cruise the freeways at 75-85 most of the time, and with my build the 30T is perfect. I tow a trailer on long trips, thus the 30T
I can get to 100 pretty quick (closed course!) 8) but don't go there often. My bike is at 100HP and 100TQ.
Just food for thought.
Same with me- Avg indicated highway speed I do with the inaccurate stock speedo is 75-80 mph. I only occasionally commute to work on the highway, as riding Highway 401 up here is not enjoyable at all, so I don't do it daily. I'm basing all this on the question, "what would the bike be like on a long highway trip with the gear change?".
I just talked to Andrews to get their opinion, and to see about the stock belt use on a 31T. Very helpful and talkative guy, didn't help make up my mind on either pulley, but told me that the bike may or may not be able to use the stock belt on a 31T, depending on how much room there is for adjustment.
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So numbers aside, do you like the mod, or do you feel that it is revving too high at highway speeds? As you can see, I'm debating between 30T and 31T, what are your thoughts?
I dont have a lot of interstate.. in fact... NO interstate... 3 freeways, no speed limits over 60... but speeds "tolerated" up to 65-70
However... I do cruise a lot at ~70... and just under 3K is perfect. When you want to pass slow moving traffic its GREAT... no downshift.. just roll into it....
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I was thinking in 09 the rear belt pulley is 2 teeth different than 07-08. Making the 07-08 seem a little higher geared. So the 30T would be even better in an 07-08. :oops: I think I am confused now.
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Well, that's the thing- a 30T in a 07-08 model puts the final drive ration at 2.97, which is where I would be with a 31T in a 2009 :
Pulleys: 2007 - 2011 Baggers
Final Drive Ratio (’07 & ’08) = 2.79 with stk 32 T pulley
Final Drive Ratio (’07 & ’08) = 2.97 with AP 30 T pulley
Final Drive Ratio (’09 & ’11) = 2.87 with stk HD 32T pulley
Final Drive Ratio (’09 & ’11) = 2.97 with 31T pulley (OK w/stock belt)
So, since it sounds like 07-08 owners are thrilled with their 30T's, it doesn't make sense that some would say a 31T in mine wouldn't make a noticable difference, and would only be a little increase in performance. :nixweiss:
Where are you Steve, help me out- you had both the 30T and 31T on your bike???
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it doesn't make sense that some would say a 31T in mine wouldn't make a noticable difference, and would only be a little increase in performance
One tooth isn't really a big change. It's no simple task to change the pulley on a Harley.
Going from 32 to 30 is like 6.5% change in gearing.
For you to go from 32 to 31 is only like 3.5% change in gearing.
I would say that unless you really feel your geaing is too high, it won't be worth it. Maybe spend the money on making more torque?
I did 7% change (2 teeth) on mine and at 70 mph it turns 175 more RPM... so if I had only gone one tooth it would have only gained 87 rpm... I mean I can change the pulley in 20 minutes... but I'm not sure it would have been worth the $330 and the aggrevation for such a small change in overall gearing.
.
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One tooth isn't really a big change. It's no simple task to change the pulley on a Harley.
Going from 32 to 30 is like 6.5% change in gearing.
For you to go from 32 to 31 is only like 3.5% change in gearing.
I would say that unless you really feel your geaing is too high, it won't be worth it. Maybe spend the money on making more torque?
I did 7% change (2 teeth) on mine and at 70 mph it turns 175 more RPM... so if I had only gone one tooth it would have only gained 87 rpm... I mean I can change the pulley in 20 minutes... but I'm not sure it would have been worth the $330 and the aggrevation for such a small change in overall gearing.
.
I totally agree.
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Where are you Steve, help me out- you had both the 30T and 31T on your bike???
And there you go, he started with a 31 and switched to a 30 because he wanted a little more low end. As I remember his story, he rode 5th gear in the wind all day bacause his bike wouldn't pull 6th.
As for the stock belt working with the 31 tooth pulley: people are putting a 30 tooth (-2 teeth) with a 139 tooth belt (-1 tooth). My point would be that they are gaining +1 tooth on the belt when all said and done, the same as droping the front one tooth with the stock belt.
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So why are people going to a 139 belt instead of a 138 belt if they are dropping from a 32 to a 30??
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It has to do with the distance of travel around the pulley set up, that's what determines which belt you use. Even thou you changed from a 32T to a 30T
you didn't change the diameter of the pulley enough to drop 2 teeth on drive belt. Chilly
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:cherry:
"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are people going to a 139 belt instead of a 138 belt if they are dropping from a 32 to a 30??"
From your comments, it seems you may have the mistaken belief that the number of teeth in the belt firgures into the gearing chgs and/or ratios.
It does not!
The reason for going from the stock belt down to a 139T belt is due to the (adjustment and tension) in the belt. Trying to use the stock belt and a two tooth smaller trans sprocket doesn't work because there is limited adjustment in the swing arm.
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FWIW I recalibrated my speedo yesterday after doing the 30T with my TTS. The new calibration said to use 2251 as the new #. I added 50 points to that as recommended By Steve George and checked with GPS. I am now within 1 mph @ 70. Close enough for me! Thanks again everyone for your input. Kelly
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FWIW I recalibrated my speedo yesterday after doing the 30T with my TTS. The new calibration said to use 2251 as the new #. I added 50 points to that as recommended By Steve George and checked with GPS. I am now within 1 mph @ 70. Close enough for me! Thanks again everyone for your input. Kelly
OK, I hope this isn't a dumb question, I've got the TTS, but I've never used it personally, always done at the dealer. I'm scheduled to go in for the 30T in a week and a half, when you said "The new calibration said to use 2251 as the new #. I added 50 points to that", does that mean the value needed was 2301?
Again, I hope this wasn't a dumb question, I haven't talked to the tech at the dealer yet to go over calibration, just want to get all my info first.
Thanks
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Not a dumb question at all. I am not a computer guy either. I had a buddy of mine come by to make sure I didn't screw this up. Watching him navigate through the TTS made the process look extremely easy. I think the recalibration window popped up automatically. There was a place to change from 32 tooth pulley to 30 T and don't forget to double check for, and input the right rear tire size. Oh and yes the calibration is now set @ 2251 + 50 = 2301. That of course is with the 180/55 B18 rear tire. Hope this helps. You're gonna love this upgrade!
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Pulleys: 2007 - 2011 Baggers
Final Drive Ratio (’07 & ’08) = 2.79 with stk 32 T pulley
Final Drive Ratio (’07 & ’08) = 2.97 with AP 30 T pulley
Final Drive Ratio (’09 & ’11) = 2.87 with stk HD 32T pulley
Final Drive Ratio (’09 & ’11) = 2.97 with AP 31T pulley (OK w/stock belt)
Interesting that dropping down two teeth in an 07-08 model (30T), gives you the same final drive ratio as dropping down one tooth (31T) in a 09-11 model (which is 2.97).
I'm still trying to make up my mind, and I haven't heard anyone dispute what I said- if 07-08 owners are thrilled with a 2.97 final drive (32T to 30T for them), why wouldn't a 09-11 owner also be thrilled with a 2.97 final? (which is a 31T).
I realize going from their stock 2.79 to 2.97 is a more drastic difference than me going from a stock 2.87 to 2.97, but the end result is still the same 2.97?
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:-\
Northstar..........Half Crazy gave you the stats, what more do you want :nixweiss:
Those guys with the earlier models that made the swap to get to the 2.97 and report being "happy" with it, they made a 6% plus change!!!!!!!!!
If you only go to a 31T, your swap will only be about 3% plus from where you were before. So you WILL NOT EXPERIENCE the same degree of gearing change that they did even though the final ratio is the same.
Sounds to me like you want to retain your stock belt if possible and not have to pay out for a -1Tooth belt that would be required if you went to the 30T which by the way you should do to be "happy" yourself :drink:
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The questions become:
1) Is the 2.87 a good compromise between the 2.79 and 2.97 for low cruise rpm and available roll-on power in top gear?
2) Would it be worth a pulley change for the 0.10 change in final drive ratio (from 2.87 to 2.97)?
Maybe you could ride with someone that has an older bike w/30 tooth and see if you can even discern a difference.
In my situation with the Victory, 1st gear was WAY too tall (they fixed that in 2008). In traffic you would never get the clutch out, it was 15 mph or nothing and that sucked.
The 7% gearing change fixed that, but I like a bike with long legs. My wonderful .86:1 overdrive gear went to .92:1, at the drags I was making it to 5th gear (an extra shift) and crossing the finish line at 5000 rpm in 5th, and cruising at 80 mph went from 2900 rpm to 3120... so it was a compromise for sure.
Now that I bumped the rev limiter from 5800 rpm to 6700 rpm the long legs are back. It'll do almost 60 mph in 1st and will most likely finish a drag race in 4th gear with the same short gearing.
Not everyone will like the shorter gears. Everything is a compromise. We trade some of this for a little more of that and it's strictly a personal choice thing.
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Northstar..........Half Crazy gave you the stats, what more do you want :nixweiss:
Those guys with the earlier models that made the swap to get to the 2.97 and report being "happy" with it, they made a 6% plus change!!!!!!!!!
If you only go to a 31T, your swap will only be about 3% plus from where you were before. So you WILL NOT EXPERIENCE the same degree of gearing change that they did even though the final ratio is the same.
Sounds to me like you want to retain your stock belt if possible and not have to pay out for a -1Tooth belt that would be required if you went to the 30T which by the way you should do to be "happy" yourself :drink:
No I dont have an issue spending the dough for a belt.
Also, a big reason for doing this is for the SE compensator, so I dont look at it as spending 2-3 hrs labor for the pulley- the money is being spent upgrading the compensator, in my mind.
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Question- with the 30T, it runs 250 rpm higher than stock at 80 mph/3000 rpms. What about lower speeds?
Is it that it will run 7% higher at any given rpm? If that's the case, I can do the math to answer my own question.....just wondering if +7% is the formula, because if it was then it would be 210 rpm higher at 3000 rpms, not 250.
Went for a nice long ride today and played around with cruising in 4th gear at 3000 rpm, then up a bit to cruise at 3200 rpm- ya, not much difference in feel, doesn't seem like it's revving TOO much higher.
Nice things about these bikes- the engines smooth out real nice around 3000 rpms...not like my last bike, a 1700 cc Yamaha- great engine, but it got buzzy around 3000 rpms. Funny how the Rineharts seem to mellow out too- unless my hearing is getting worse, lol.
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Is it that it will run 7% higher at any given rpm? If that's the case, I can do the math to answer my own question...
The 7% was my Victory.
For you guys with '07-'08 bikes 2.79 x 1.065 = 2.97 (That's 6.5%)
What was 2500 RPM x 1.065 becomes 2662 (+162 RPM)
What was 3000 RPM x 1.065 becomes 3195 (+195 RPM)
For the '09 and up guys 2.87 x 1.035 = 2.97 (That's 3.5%)
What was 2500 RPM x 1.035 becomes 2587 (+87 RPM)
What was 3000 RPM x 1.035 becomes 3105 (+105 RPM)
So you see, even the 6.5% isn't huge... in 6th gear... But you have to remember it's ALL the gears that are shorter, not just 6th.
.
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That helps- when I ride a normal relaxed pace, I shift around 3000- so basically that will come 200 rpm sooner- I guess that doesn't sound like a big difference.
Thanks halfcrazy and everyone else.
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I shift around 3000- so basically that will come 200 rpm sooner-
Huh?
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I guess it would be more accurate to say shift points come 200 rpm sooner at the same speeds as now....whatever.
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yup exactly my point i am at 3300 @ 120kph in 5th and 2800 in 6th at 120 and 120 is my preferred speed at 2800 rpm my engine sounds like chit and lugs at 3300 she is ok but just a little fast but with the new gearing i will hit my 3000 @120 in 6th wich is perfect engine is quite yet gets good throttle response and reasonable milage sounds great to me other wise it is unusable in 5th i keep shifting up if i ride her in 6th i keep finding myself at 135 140 kph i ride to keep my motor happy not to follow the law
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at 2800 rpm my engine sounds like chit and lugs
If my cruiser/bagger/tourer motorcycle with a large displacement V-twin engine on it wouldn't pull 6th gear comfortably at 2800 rpm... I would have to ask myself if the gearing was really too tall or if the motor just lacked balls? Screw the pulley, give me another 20 ft-lbs of torque across the board.
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I decided to go with the 31T.
Reasons are:
- It seems those who are happy with it seem to qualify it with a "great for my style of riding", or " I don't do much interstate", which infers it would be revving to high at 75-85 mph for my liking. Or, the happy ones are the 07-08 owners who ended up with a 2.97 ratio, which is what I'll be at with the 31T on my 09. Steve at Fullsac made the switch from the 31 to the 30 to help his power when "running heavy 2 up going up hills with a 30-40 mph headwind", which is something I don't encounter on a regular basis.
- I don't have much of an issue with the rpm in sixth, and not being in the sweet spot- my issue is more with take off in first gear since first is too tall- I think the 31T should help.
- A guy on another forum with a 2010 RG did the 30T and now wants to switch out to a 31T because he thinks it's revving too high in 6th.
And like I said, the pulley swap isn't really costing any labor since the primary reason of wanting to do this is to upgrade the SE compensator anyhow. Any other improvement is gravy.
I'll post my honest review once I make the switch. Thanks to everyone for their advice.
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One other thing- since the stock speedo is about 5% optimistic, once somebody does the gear change AND does the speedo correction with the TTS, it would really give an illusion that the rpm's went up drastically, when in reality they only went up a bit. Although it is an illusion, it does become a reality because it will show higher rpms at a set speed with just the speedo correction alone, so an even further rpm raise by changing the gear will be that much more noticable.
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totaly agree with the fellow on the cant pull 120 in 6th at 2800 must not have enough balls statement but everyone seems to no how noisy the 110 is and i am happy with the power even at 2800 its just really really noisy and being a tech myself it is either gonna have to be a cam swap to bring my torque down lower or just leave it alone and ride her at 3000 were she is dead quite and perfectly happy you wouldnt think 200 rpm would do that but it does the bike pulls hard after 3000 but not so great anything below i dunno maybe a cam swap would be something to consider i also have a friend with a road glide and he has the 103 he has had harleys for many years he is old enough to be my dad and he went to the 30 tooth on his and loves it it is just that perfect rpm at my speed and that to me is what you should set your gearing to the speed you ride at most on the highway and then get your rpm set to were it runs best and on mine thats 3grand right on the money i am looking at my parts right now and cant wait to put em in i will let you all no
;D
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not trying to high jack, but I have done this on the 09 SERG and love the gear. What I hate is the belt. you need to use an aftrmarket belt and I'm on my second one in 4,000 miles. And I will add that I am very easy on the bike. Here is my question; does anyone know of a rear belt gear that is the same as stock for my road glide but is a little wider? If I could find something that was 1 1/8" wide as opposed to the stock 1" then harley makes a stock belt that would work. Any ideas??
Mike
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I take it you have the 30t?
Check out the stock Tri glide belt- It is wider and has a wider 30 t stock pulley.
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I take it you have the 30t?
Check out the stock Tri glide belt- It is wider and has a wider 30 t stock pulley.
The rear pully is the one I want to be wider!
Mike
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Does anyone know for sure if the 31 tooth sprocket can be used with the stock belt on a 2009 bagger??? Thanks
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Does anyone know for sure if the 31 tooth sprocket can be used with the stock belt on a 2009 bagger??? Thanks
Apparently it can as long as the axle can be adjusted slightly rearwards.
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Haven't done mine yet, but when I asked Steve George about the speedo reprogam with 30T and TTS, he said to ad 50 points to the recalculated value to get a good base. Then check it with a good GPS for accuracy. FWIW
I missed this.....
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Just placed my order with Jon Horton at Horny Toad HD in Texas (member on roadglide.org forum, comes highly recommended).
$390.18 including shipping to Buffalo NY for an Andrews 31T pulley, SE Compensator, and all the required HD bolts and gaskets :2vrolijk_21:
I'll post a review in a couple weeks once I get the work done.
I'll likely post this question as a new thread if I don't get an answer here, but can anyone point me in the direction of where in the TTS documents I find how to correct the speedo? I have whatever manuals that came on the CD with the TTS, but I don't see it anywhere.
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not trying to high jack, but I have done this on the 09 SERG and love the gear. What I hate is the belt. you need to use an aftrmarket belt and I'm on my second one in 4,000 miles. And I will add that I am very easy on the bike. Here is my question; does anyone know of a rear belt gear that is the same as stock for my road glide but is a little wider? If I could find something that was 1 1/8" wide as opposed to the stock 1" then harley makes a stock belt that would work. Any ideas??
Mike
:nixweiss:
I don't think Harley makes belts. Those belts are manufactored by Gates or some other company. What ever company that is also provides other belts too to enable getting a minus 1 toother for your application. I recently did mine and used the Drag Specialties belt and never paid attention to just what company made it.......guess I will do so if I encounter broken belts as you have.
Bottom line is you should be able to find a belt every bit as strong and durable as the HD one........cause they DONT make it, someone else does. :drink:
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Just placed my order with Jon Horton at Horny Toad HD in Texas (member on roadglide.org forum, comes highly recommended).
$390.18 including shipping to Buffalo NY for an Andrews 31T pulley, SE Compensator, and all the required HD bolts and gaskets :2vrolijk_21:
I'll post a review in a couple weeks once I get the work done.
I'll likely post this question as a new thread if I don't get an answer here, but can anyone point me in the direction of where in the TTS documents I find how to correct the speedo? I have whatever manuals that came on the CD with the TTS, but I don't see it anywhere.
:-\ After all the discussion, I find myself amused that you finally opted for a 31T swap that is gonna give you a mere 3% gain. (which for most folks would be hard to recognize the difference). Here is hoping you enjoy it and don't regret not going to the 30T and a 6% gain that most of us have found to be recognizable and a welcome change to the stock gearing. :confused5:
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:-\ After all the discussion, I find myself amused that you finally opted for a 31T swap that is gonna give you a mere 3% gain. (which for most folks would be hard to recognize the difference). Here is hoping you enjoy it and don't regret not going to the 30T and a 6% gain that most of us have found to be recognizable and a welcome change to the stock gearing. :confused5:
Do you know personally that it doesn't make a noticable difference? The only one I know of that has a 2009+ and has ran both the 30T and 31T is Steve George. He seemed to switch to the 30T because he wanted more- he never said he switched because he never felt a difference. I tried phoning him to hear his thoughts on this, but we played phone tag and I never bothered after that.
Why would Andrews and Baker spend all the time and money manufacturing a 31T if nobody wanted it?
In any case, I made my decision based on the reasons in Post #162. As long as it helps the tall first gear issue, and makes it better in stop and go traffic, I'll be happy. Like I said, the 6th gear thing isn't as much of an issue with me, and I'm mainly doing this for the SE compensator.
I could end up liking it, I could end up regretting it-who knows. Guess I'll see what happens.
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I guess it would be more accurate to say shift points come 200 rpm sooner at the same speeds as now....whatever.
Ummm.... no. 3000 RPM is 3000 RPM...
Lets say that the bike used to hit the 6000 RPM rev limiter at:
40 MPH in 1st
70 MPH in 2nd
90 MPH in 3rd
After the gearing change, it would hit the 6000 RPM rev limiter at:
37 MPH in 1st
65 MPH in 2nd
83 mph in 3rd
Now if you raised the rev limit to 6390 RPM, you'd be right back where you were.
The gears go by quicker. Not not because RPMs come faster, but because the shorter gearing gives you more RPM at a lower road speed.
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:nixweiss:
I don't think Harley makes belts. Those belts are manufactored by Gates or some other company. What ever company that is also provides other belts too to enable getting a minus 1 toother for your application. I recently did mine and used the Drag Specialties belt and never paid attention to just what company made it.......guess I will do so if I encounter broken belts as you have.
Bottom line is you should be able to find a belt every bit as strong and durable as the HD one........cause they DONT make it, someone else does. :drink:
Well I'm not sure who makes the belts for Harley and I don't really care but they do own the patent on the belt composition and it appears to be a stronger belt. that being said I hope I have better fortune with this belt.
Mike
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why not another 20 ftlb of torque and the 30th pulley? how about getting both? then smile
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Does anyone know for sure if the 31 tooth sprocket can be used with the stock belt on a 2009 bagger??? Thanks
You can run the 31T with the stock belt, but you are maxed out on adjustment. If your belt has stretched in the slightest, it
will be loose. I ran one this way for a short while but was uncomfortable with the play.
Just my .02. Any drop in gearing, 30 or 31 is very noticeable and a step in the right direction if you have any interest in performance.
SG
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You can run the 31T with the stock belt, but you are maxed out on adjustment. If your belt has stretched in the slightest, it
will be loose. I ran one this way for a short while but was uncomfortable with the play.
Just my .02. Any drop in gearing, 31 or 32 is very noticeable and a step in the right direction if you have any interest in performance.
SG
Steve- If there is room for the axle to be adjusted 3.2mm back (according to Andrews), it should allow a sufficient range of belt adjustment, right?
I assume you meant that a 30 or 31T change is very noticable on a 2009+ (not 31 or 32). I'm glad to finally hear someone who has actually had both, supports the conclusion I came to after researching this, so hopefully the 31T will give me what I feel is right for me.
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I picked up an Andrews 30T and belt from Fullsac from Rob May. I've not yet put it on, but now with all the belt breakage, I'm not sure if it's a good idea.
I have a Fullsac 2" with TTS on my '09 SERG and it runs great, except for the 1st gear parking lot issues.
I'm wondering if anyone has tried, in any application other than a stock Harley, an idler tensioner to take up the extra slack with a smaller diameter drive sprocket.
I've seen on customs where they don't have a sliding rear axle, they use a precision bearing flat idler pulley on the slack side (bottom) for their adjustments.
Here at work I have access to a CNC turning center along with our Omax water jet. I can make up just about anything I need. I'm just wondering that if we were to use the 30T drive sprocket and an adjustable flat idler pulley about at the swing arm pivot point, if that wouldn't allow us good support of the original stock belt.
Any thoughts on this as an option?
I know someone said that Harley owns the composition on their belts to make it different or stronger than anything else available. This is not unlike Chrysler having Prestone make their antifreeze. Even through it's made by Prestone, it's not Prestone by any means. While working at a Prestone plant in Alsip IL a few years ago, the plant engineer told me that the Chrysler was in his opinion a better blend than their own Prestone antifreeze.
Sorry to ramble on, back to the idler and too long rear belt. What does everyone think about making up an idler and maintaining the original belt?
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I picked up an Andrews 30T and belt from Fullsac from Rob May. I've not yet put it on, but now with all the belt breakage, I'm not sure if it's a good idea.
I have a Fullsac 2" with TTS on my '09 SERG and it runs great, except for the 1st gear parking lot issues.
I'm wondering if anyone has tried, in any application other than a stock Harley, an idler tensioner to take up the extra slack with a smaller diameter drive sprocket.
I've seen on customs where they don't have a sliding rear axle, they use a precision bearing flat idler pulley on the slack side (bottom) for their adjustments.
Here at work I have access to a CNC turning center along with our Omax water jet. I can make up just about anything I need. I'm just wondering that if we were to use the 30T drive sprocket and an adjustable flat idler pulley about at the swing arm pivot point, if that wouldn't allow us good support of the original stock belt.
Any thoughts on this as an option?
I know someone said that Harley owns the composition on their belts to make it different or stronger than anything else available. This is not unlike Chrysler having Prestone make their antifreeze. Even through it's made by Prestone, it's not Prestone by any means. While working at a Prestone plant in Alsip IL a few years ago, the plant engineer told me that the Chrysler was in his opinion a better blend than their own Prestone antifreeze.
Sorry to ramble on, back to the idler and too long rear belt. What does everyone think about making up an idler and maintaining the original belt?
Thats a great idea! I have a 2009 Buell Lightning collecting dust in the corner. I think I will take a look at the idler.
Thanks Dan!
SG
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dunno think i would try getting the 1 1/8 belt to either fit cause it is offerd by harley or cut 1/8 of an inch off the belt before running an idler but i am anal on that chit im just happy with clean unclutterd stuff an idler would bug me but would be effective
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dunno think i would try getting the 1 1/8 belt to either fit cause it is offerd by harley or cut 1/8 of an inch off the belt before running an idler but i am anal on that chit im just happy with clean unclutterd stuff an idler would bug me but would be effective
My choice would be a belt without an idler also. But..... I'm just saying with all the hoopla about breaking belts, other than Harley OEM belts, an idler may allow for the drop in ratio while still maintaining the confidence in the OEM belt.
Steve, do you have a picture of the Buell idler pulley assembly?
The only major load on the idler will be in downshifting, using the motor for braking etc. Normal hard throttle take offs will still be in the original straight upper belt pull, nothing new there.
I have not even looked at my swingarm to see what realestate is available, but I'm sure with the new larger construction of the swingarm, a few 5/16" tapped holes would not weaken it in any way.
Any more thoughts on this as a possible option?
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Way back in 08 I attempted to machine wider the 09 rear pulley to accept the 1 1/8 belt and scrapped it. Im not a great machinist.
Might have done better with a porting tool. It would be possible to splice a 1 1/8 outer shell onto the 09 center. I was about to head that direction before I found the atermarket 136 belt. The reports of belt breakage are a huge concern to me. I personally have only shredded one And have to take full credit for the failure. The belt had previously been soaked in oil and I dropped the clutch attempting a wheel stand with the girlfriend on the back. It did not snap as others have reported, I just stripped off about ten teeth. Results were the same, I was parked and embarrassed. I have done countless wheelies and burn out with the new belt and never had a concern until others started having issues. I'm getting ready to leave on a ten day trip to Montanna, Bear Tooth Rally. Will I be doing burnout and wheelies, hell no! Point is, I never want to leave home with out complete confidence in my machine. I want to get on my bike and ride it like I stole it across three states and back home again with out concern. What could be cooler than wheelying across the Bear Tooth Pass? Maybe i'll just ride over this year. I'm going to work on finding another drive belt option for those of us who like to tear up the tires.
SG
Fullsac Performance
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So numbers aside, do you like the mod, or do you feel that it is revving too high at highway speeds? As you can see, I'm debating between 30T and 31T, what are your thoughts?
Just to keep it easy to find a belt the same day I broke down , assuming I could use the stock HD belt.
I would have put in a 31t instead of the 30t pulley . I broke the aftermarket belt in NY and I took 2days to get back on the road.
That said , the next time I tear into the bike I`ll replace the 30t with a 31t if the stock belt will fit.
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Just to keep it easy to find a belt the same day I broke down , assuming I could use the stock HD belt.
I would have put in a 31t instead of the 30t pulley . I broke the aftermarket belt in NY and I took 2days to get back on the road.
That said , the next time I tear into the bike I`ll replace the 30t with a 31t if the stock belt will fit.
Aside from the belt breaking, how do you like the 30T? Does it give you the ability to let out the clutch in a parking lot and still not be going 20 mph?
I ride mainly 2-up and I'm getting ready to install my 30T, but I'm really thinking of making an idler pulley for the extra length I'll have left over. Steve mentioned the Buell he has and I've been doing some research on the Buell parts as well as their 1125 cc Buell. They all use the idler and I'm thinking that's what I might try to retro under my swingarm.
If it works out well, it might be an opportunity to easily do the 30T and still maintain the stock drive belt. At least if it were to break then, it would be replaced with an in stock original HD belt and not an aftermarket belt.
I'll keep you all in the loop as this moves forward.
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Aside from the belt breaking, how do you like the 30T? Does it give you the ability to let out the clutch in a parking lot and still not be going 20mph.
I love it. Really jumps out of the curves now.
I can also idle down my gravel drive now.
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man dont no who you are or were you are from but i copied your pic of your bike pulling that sick wheelie and thats awsome and now is my goal to as i have the same bike with a se 110 just wondering what you have done to yours to get it to pull up like that i can get my frnt wheel up at least 10" or so i have the belt pulley and comp sprkt to go on and went with the drag specialty belt just waiting for time to put her together but after hearing all the breakage issues i think ill wait till after my 3000km trip
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I installed the 30T set up last winter. I had 41,500 miles on the stock belt and it looked fine. I was pretty darn aggressive with the bike with the original belt and sprocket for a period of time. Tonight, I went for a ride with my wife to tune up the Bitubo's. Well the belt just shredded and I was taking it easy and have been since I installed the kit. I really enjoyed the change the gearing did for the bike, it was everything Steve and others had reported. I also installed the SE compensator and a heavy duty clutch while I was in there. I have only put 3,000 miles on this belt, and like I said, no burn outs, wheelies, etc. It accelerates much better than it ever did so I was pretty pleased with the performance increase. Since I have such high mileage, I decided to take it easy and get through the summer without pushing it. What do guys with the 117's and the 120's use? I used the Drag Specialities which I believe was a Falcon. Does Harley make a better belt? Sure need some advise as I don't want to go through this again. We had a long walk in hot weather to get to the truck & trailer which led to some impressive blisters on each foot.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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RayG, I can feel your pain with the broken, that's why I'm taking a second look at the belt breaking issues.
I'm not sure what the issue is, weaker belt than the stock Harley, but just having the 30T belt should not be that much harder on them than the stock pulley.
I have an aftermarket new belt in the 139T length and I'm not going to jump at putting the 30T and aftermarket belt on. I'm going to see what I have to do to have the Buell idler adapted to my rear swingarm. I need to get my garage cleaned up and then get the bike up on the main lift and do some investigating on how to fit it in.
I'm thinking the stock belt with the 30T will be a big hit my sense of security on trips etc.
Again, I don't have a plan yet, but hope to shortly.
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I installed the 30T set up last winter. I had 41,500 miles on the stock belt and it looked fine. I was pretty darn aggressive with the bike with the original belt and sprocket for a period of time. Tonight, I went for a ride with my wife to tune up the Bitubo's. Well the belt just shredded and I was taking it easy and have been since I installed the kit. I really enjoyed the change the gearing did for the bike, it was everything Steve and others had reported. I also installed the SE compensator and a heavy duty clutch while I was in there. I have only put 3,000 miles on this belt, and like I said, no burn outs, wheelies, etc. It accelerates much better than it ever did so I was pretty pleased with the performance increase. Since I have such high mileage, I decided to take it easy and get through the summer without pushing it. What do guys with the 117's and the 120's use? I used the Drag Specialities which I believe was a Falcon. Does Harley make a better belt? Sure need some advise as I don't want to go through this again. We had a long walk in hot weather to get to the truck & trailer which led to some impressive blisters on each foot.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Ray
Can you positively ID the manufacture of the broken belt for us.
Thanks,
Steve
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Mine was a Falcon (sp), and it just snapped ridding down the road. no wheelies, no burnouts after 5,000 miles.
Mike
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The box the belt came in was from DRAG, it had the following on the label Part #1204-0056 Vendor #BDLSPCB-135-1 BELT REAR DRV 1" 135T.
The belt itself has the following info printed on it, Falcon SPC" (Belt Drivers LTD, in very small print) BDL SPC - 135 - 1 530350912 16010 028 MADE IN USA. I just compared both belts, the OEM and the Falcon and I don't see much difference on the belly side, the grip section is identical under a large magnifying glass. The OEM belt has a ribbed section on the outer side while the Falcon has a polished sandpaper finish. If I was a betting man I would go with the gluing or bonding process as my Falcon looks like it delaminated and is splitting in two. I hope this helps, there must be a better belt.
The sprocket is an Andrews Part # 1201-0227.
I guess I'll wait until I receive info on a better belt or go back to the poor setup I had. With the early 08's it's not just the gearing its the FBW and the throttle lag that makes slow speed driving a pain. I have tried the SERT, SEPST, and the new Rev Perf product without solving the issue. So again this belt did not snap, it had the nubs ripped right off at the glue line. I used to make custom longbows and recurves for a living so I'm know a little about proper glue lines & bonding products to avoid delaminating.
Wife has the camera, I'll try to post a photo tonight.
Ray G.
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The box the belt came in was from DRAG, it had the following on the label Part #1204-0056 Vendor #BDLSPCB-135-1 BELT REAR DRV 1" 135T.
The belt itself has the following info printed on it, Falcon SPC" (Belt Drivers LTD, in very small print) BDL SPC - 135 - 1 530350912 16010 028 MADE IN USA. I just compared both belts, the OEM and the Falcon and I don't see much difference on the belly side, the grip section is identical under a large magnifying glass. The OEM belt has a ribbed section on the outer side while the Falcon has a polished sandpaper finish. If I was a betting man I would go with the gluing or bonding process as my Falcon looks like it delaminated and is splitting in two. I hope this helps, there must be a better belt.
The sprocket is an Andrews Part # 1201-0227.
I guess I'll wait until I receive info on a better belt or go back to the poor setup I had. With the early 08's it's not just the gearing its the FBW and the throttle lag that makes slow speed driving a pain. I have tried the SERT, SEPST, and the new Rev Perf product without solving the issue. So again this belt did not snap, it had the nubs ripped right off at the glue line. I used to make custom longbows and recurves for a living so I'm know a little about proper glue lines & bonding products to avoid delaminating.
Wife has the camera, I'll try to post a photo tonight.
Ray G.
You have an 08! Sure it wasn't a 136T? Get ready to be happy, your belt search is over. Harley makes an OEM Sportster belt in a 136T, 1" wide.
I ran one on my 07 and beat the absolute crap out of it for over 10K miles. Please don't ask me the year or Part number.
Thanks for info Ray!
Steve
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So last week I installed a chrome inner primary, 30t HD sprocket and 139t Drag Specialties belt. First gear is WAY better, but in my opinion I liked the taller 6th. We put on 600 miles over the weekend, with the final leg being highway miles, cruising around 80 mph. The RPM's were noticeably higher, and with the high temperatures outside I would think would increase the temp of the motor. My biggest concern is the belt breakage though. Now that I have done this mod I am wondering if it is worth it. Because these 110's are so dependable I bought the 7 year warranty (stock belt is cover by warranty right?). Now if I break a belt on the road I will have to wait to get the 139t belt, and pay dealer labor rates to install it. Anybody know what a dealer would charge to do this? To boot, I now have a leak on the inner bearing seal of my inner primary. I am going to pull the primary back apart and replace the seal. Not sure if I damaged it putting the primary on or what happend. I am actually considering going back to stock gearing while I am in there.
In summary: I do like the gearing, just not sure it's worth have an undependable belt. On a road trip in the middle of nowhere and you break a belt, going to have to pay to get it towed to the dealer, wait for a belt, and then pay HD labor rates to swap the belt. My guess that's $1K by the time you are done, and a stock belt would all be covered under the warranty if it would even break in the first place.
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All these breaking belt stories make me glad I decided on the 31T instead of the 30T for my 09.
I wonder if the Gates Poly belt would be better than the Drag or Falcon- I heard Gates makes the belts for HD.
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I had a stock belt break twice on my 2010 Ultra. First belt was probably our fault (bending etc) second belt we were very careful of the handling and it broke while a service tech was doing a test ride. Don't know if this can be blamed on the change in sprocket/belt. I think there are a run of questionable belts out there.
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You had a "stock" belt break twice?
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So last week I installed a chrome inner primary, 30t HD sprocket and 139t Drag Specialties belt. First gear is WAY better, but in my opinion I liked the taller 6th. We put on 600 miles over the weekend, with the final leg being highway miles, cruising around 80 mph. The RPM's were noticeably higher, and with the high temperatures outside I would think would increase the temp of the motor. My biggest concern is the belt breakage though. Now that I have done this mod I am wondering if it is worth it. Because these 110's are so dependable I bought the 7 year warranty (stock belt is cover by warranty right?). Now if I break a belt on the road I will have to wait to get the 139t belt, and pay dealer labor rates to install it. Anybody know what a dealer would charge to do this? To boot, I now have a leak on the inner bearing seal of my inner primary. I am going to pull the primary back apart and replace the seal. Not sure if I damaged it putting the primary on or what happend. I am actually considering going back to stock gearing while I am in there.
In summary: I do like the gearing, just not sure it's worth have an undependable belt. On a road trip in the middle of nowhere and you break a belt, going to have to pay to get it towed to the dealer, wait for a belt, and then pay HD labor rates to swap the belt. My guess that's $1K by the time you are done, and a stock belt would all be covered under the warranty if it would even break in the first place.
No - not by Harley or extended service contract.
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You had a "stock" belt break twice?
Yes.
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No - not by Harley or extended service contract.
Well that does affect my thinking a little, allthough there is much less chance breaking the stock belt I would think.
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Well that does affect my thinking a little, allthough there is much less chance breaking the stock belt I would think.
Not sure what the big difference is, but I did this exact mod to my 2007 (maybe different tooth count on belt??) and it was flawless. I don't think the difference between the 30-31 is the issue at all. I would go with the 30 if I was doing a mod at all. It's less than 200 RPM's at 3k right? Which to me was good as I couldn't really tell any difference at cruising speed but could tell a difference in the lower gears which is where I wanted it. JMO.
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Quote from: FAST380 on Today at 10:13:20 AM
Well that does affect my thinking a little, allthough there is much less chance breaking the stock belt I would think.
Not sure what the big difference is, but I did this exact mod to my 2007 (maybe different tooth count on belt??) and it was flawless. I don't think the difference between the 30-31 is the issue at all. I would go with the 30 if I was doing a mod at all. It's less than 200 RPM's at 3k right? Which to me was good as I couldn't really tell any difference at cruising speed but could tell a difference in the lower gears which is where I wanted it. JMO.
My difference in thinking was because I thought the extended warranty covered the belt (7 Years). If there is no warrany on either, then the only difference is if the aftermarket belt is going to last or leave me stranded. As for the 30 or 31 tooth, I went with the 30 and have no regrets there.
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Thanks for for the reply Steve, to answer your question I would have to say that I did have the 135 tooth belt as that is what is stamped on the Falcon belt. The belt is way to damaged to attempt a count. I was told that HD makes a 136T for international sales, maybe that is the same one you are talking about. I will do the legwork for the Sportster info, but will a 136T belt be OK to replace the 135T. If it works out great if not I'll go back to the 137T stock until guys like Dan can figure a solution for this. If I go back to stock I will really miss the gearing that made the bike come alive, but I like the idea of making it home. It seems some of us have had more than our share of various failures when attempting to improve the MOCO's short comings. So far the info on this site has put the Falcon belt as the one that is causing the majority of the failures.
So I just need to know by anyone that has the information if a new 136T can safely replace the 135T.
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Ray,
Have you taken your bike apart yet from your latest belt failure? If not, take a look at the adjuster and see how much the rear wheel could be moved backwards, that should be able to tell you if you can use a 1 tooth longer belt.
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I have not taken the wheel of yet, still resting from the long walk home. Not kidding, couldn't get cell reception and people were enjoying the 4th while I was training for a marathon. Since I had to adjust the belt that broke a few times due to stretching I'm inclined to think that it will fit. In all honesty all this seems like a band aid solution, unless a better product has been prooven to hold up I think we should be looking for a wider rear sprocket to accept a wider belt like the S&S or a similar belt that can take it. A local guy I know had a 117 Hillside build and broke 3 belts in 2 weeks, he now has a huge chain and sprocket set up. Yep cost him a small fortune.
In my case you tend do allot of thinking when you park your bike and walk home. Suddenly a driveshaft seems to be the answer I'm looking for.
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My difference in thinking was because I thought the extended warranty covered the belt (7 Years). If there is no warrany on either, then the only difference is if the aftermarket belt is going to last or leave me stranded. As for the 30 or 31 tooth, I went with the 30 and have no regrets there.
Just to be clear, I meant the big difference between my 07 and the newer bikes with the newer frame. I didn't know if there was a big difference in belt tooth or such. :2vrolijk_21: :drink:
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I have not taken the wheel of yet, still resting from the long walk home. Not kidding, couldn't get cell reception and people were enjoying the 4th while I was training for a marathon. Since I had to adjust the belt that broke a few times due to stretching I'm inclined to think that it will fit. In all honesty all this seems like a band aid solution, unless a better product has been prooven to hold up I think we should be looking for a wider rear sprocket to accept a wider belt like the S&S or a similar belt that can take it. A local guy I know had a 117 Hillside build and broke 3 belts in 2 weeks, he now has a huge chain and sprocket set up. Yep cost him a small fortune.
In my case you tend do allot of thinking when you park your bike and walk home. Suddenly a driveshaft seems to be the answer I'm looking for.
Ray
An "OEM Harley" belt is available. 136T, 1" wide from a Sportster. Will fit 07-08 Touring with 30T counter shaft pulley. A Harley parts Guy can find it , no problem.
I abused one for over two years. No issues. I didn't know a 135T would fit?
Steve
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Well Steve now I'm really confused as I thought the correct kit for my 08 was the 30T sprocket with the 135 Tooth belt. Is the proper set up for my 08 SERK a 136 tooth belt? If that is the case I can order the belt today. With all the different years being mentioned on this site the 30T sprocket was the common part with different lengths belts for various models. Since I have 45,000 miles and the rear sprocket is showing a few small dings and dents would you recommend that I change that as well?
Thanks for all the replies Steve, really sorry to be bugging you.
Thank you
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Well this sucks- bikes in the shop now and I'm being told it needs a 139T belt (for a 31T pulley). I gambled that the stock belt would work, but apparently there isn't room to move the axle back.
I could have them order the 139T belt, but they are only able to order the Drag Specialties belt for $240.00 (Cdn pricing- that's why I buy all my stuff stateside) which they think is made by Gates, but I would want the Gates Poly that goes for $140.00 on line. I should have pre-ordered the Gates when I ordered all the other parts, just in case of this very situation, but I didn't.
Money aside, since I'm going on a long trip in 10 days and after hearing all the belt breaking stories, I guess I'm not gonna bother with this mod- I told the shop to just install the SE compensator and thats it. I wish all of us here could have figured out what the belt breaking issue was (brand, pulley size, etc), but since we haven't nailed it down to a problem with a particular brand of belt, I don't want to take the chance before my trip.
I guess I'll be putting up my Andrews 31T pulley up for sale soon.
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:juggle:
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Well this sucks- bikes in the shop now and I'm being told it needs a 139T belt (for a 31T pulley). I gambled that the stock belt would work, but apparently there isn't room to move the axle back.
I could have them order the 139T belt, but they are only able to order the Drag Specialties belt for $240.00 (Cdn pricing- that's why I buy all my stuff stateside) which they think is made by Gates, but I would want the Gates Poly that goes for $140.00 on line. I should have pre-ordered the Gates when I ordered all the other parts, just in case of this very situation, but I didn't.
Money aside, since I'm going on a long trip in 10 days and after hearing all the belt breaking stories, I guess I'm not gonna bother with this mod- I told the shop to just install the SE compensator and thats it. I wish all of us here could have figured out what the belt breaking issue was (brand, pulley size, etc), but since we haven't nailed it down to a problem with a particular brand of belt, I don't want to take the chance before my trip.
I guess I'll be putting up my Andrews 31T pulley up for sale soon.
When I did the 30T mod to my 07 Cuse, never had a problem. Don't know what that means, just throwing it out there. :drink:
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Maybe that's because on the 07-08's, you guys used a different HD belt, no?
Not sure, but I'm referring to the last few pages in this thread where people mentioned they had aftermarket belts break on them.
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Got my 30T and belt (Drag) from Fullsac.......
Got about 10k miles on it so far, pulling a trailer (450lbs) on a trip now (1900 miles so far)
No problems, no stretching, no adjustments, no noise. Bike pulls just fine with this change, up over the Cascades, long grades in 5th or 6th gears (depending on speeds)
I find that I can pull mountain grades in 6th, if I keep the revs above 2500.
JMHO.......this has been a good change for our load.
Never had a problem keeping freeway speeds without the trailer, I can take a blast up to 100......but, I don't ride that speed all day!
8)
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I've got about 3500 miles on mine I got from Steve.. so far no issues... some stretch in the beginning, but no issues since. Mine is the Falcon belt (139?) for my 2009 SERG
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Ya, thats the thing with these forums- a few guys have a problem, and Im left with the feeling that everybody is going to have the same problem. Same thing with all the other issues guys have with their CVO's- sometimes makes us all feel like the sky is falling. lol. I may have been fine with an aftermarket belt, but like I said, I didnt want to chance it before my trip.... Should have waited till I came back before opening up the primary.
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Ya, thats the thing with these forums- a few guys have a problem, and Im left with the feeling that everybody is going to have the same problem. Same thing with all the other issues guys have with their CVO's- sometimes makes us all feel like the sky is falling. lol. I may have been fine with an aftermarket belt, but like I said, I didnt want to chance it before my trip.... Should have waited till I came back before opening up the primary.
Very true... but it doesnt mean ALL of ours will fail.. its not like the 110s that WILL fail eventually! :huepfenlol2:
speaking of that... I need to get away from my distraction and order my procharger... :)
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well maybe going to chain drive is the answer then,
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:confused5:
Let me state again, Harley does NOT make the belts that drive the rear wheel. Gates or some other source makes them. Those that have indeed experienced (broken belts) that are not genuine HD "stocks", need to let us know what/how it happened.
If you're not trying to do wheelies with a 900+ pound Tour model or do something totally stupid like a "burn-out" at the local pub, I would expect the belt to not be a source of problems regardless of the manufactorer.
This whole (belt break) potential, has caused some like (North Star) to not enjoy the advantage he might have had if he had gone for the 30T trans sprocket...........Nope, he opted for the 31T (in an attempt to try and maintain the "stock" belt) and it wouldn't work. First of all, as I and others said earlier in this post, the 31T would NOT have been noticable and or really advantageous.
So, I'm suggesting we need to get some specific feedback on broken (non-stock) belts..........What brand are they, thus maybe we should avoid them.
meantime, my 139T drag specialties belt (made by who I don't know) is working just fine.
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Are the belts that are breaking due to some stretching then not getting them adjusted correctly then abusing the belt by doing a burn out or wheelie?
Supershooter
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You can run the 31T with the stock belt, but you are maxed out on adjustment. If your belt has stretched in the slightest, it
will be loose. I ran one this way for a short while but was uncomfortable with the play.
Just my .02. Any drop in gearing, 30 or 31 is very noticeable and a step in the right direction if you have any interest in performance.
SG
No point in continuing to debate this with you moscooter, but I'll just throw in my last 2 cents- the ONLY guy I know of that has had both the 30 and 31 on an 09 +, quotes above that the measly 31T does make a noticable difference, despite your guessing it doesn't (it's a guess because you haven't actually ran the 31T, right?).
But maybe you find Steve "amusing" as well... ::)
I still say the SE comp and the 31T would be a nice mod for someone who doesn't want a much higher revving bike on the freeways- it just wasn't the right timing for me to go ahead with it. I'm not alone in that opinion, as I've already got 2 people that want to buy my 31T, and I haven't even advertised it yet.
After putting on a few miles, I find the SE compensator makes a nice improvement in shifting, and has actually gotten rid of the chugging and rattling in first gear, which is the biggest improvement IMO.
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No point in continuing to debate this with you moscooter, but I'll just throw in my last 2 cents- the ONLY guy I know of that has had both the 30 and 31 on an 09 +, quotes above that the measly 31T does make a noticable difference, despite your guessing it doesn't (it's a guess because you haven't actually ran the 31T, right?).
But maybe you find Steve "amusing" as well... ::)
I still say the SE comp and the 31T would be a nice mod for someone who doesn't want a much higher revving bike on the freeways- it just wasn't the right timing for me to go ahead with it. I'm not alone in that opinion, as I've already got 2 people that want to buy my 31T, and I haven't even advertised it yet.
After putting on a few miles, I find the SE compensator makes a nice improvement in shifting, and has actually gotten rid of the chugging and rattling in first gear, which is the biggest improvement IMO.
FYI:
Steve CAN be amusing sometimes!!! But, only after he's done working!!!
8)
Look up the word "work-a-holic" and you'll see his picture!
I'm happy that he's like that, instead of me!
JMHO
BTW: Did we see you in Laughlin last April??? If that was you, "hi" again 8)
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Well, i'm 1700 miles into my Redlodge Montana Beartooth rally trip. You guys really need to check this rally out. We did a 140 mile poker run on Friday and a 180 mile poker run over the 1100' Beartooth pass on Saturday! 10 foot snow banks in the pass wearing a Long sleeve shirt! Awesome riding though historic towns with Grizzly bear warning signs. Anyway, point being, no belt issues here. Even did a few burn outs. Hit 111 GPS this morning having a showdown with a BMW. It's possible a few may have got defective belts? The majority are not having issues. I'm 3000 miles in on this one, done countless wheelies and burnouts. Still going strong.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance
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Well I'm not trying to be a profit of doom. But I take offense twosome members and there assessment of me stating my facts. I love my gear change 30t and works great for me. 95% is 2 up and 80mph is about all I care for most of the time. I'm not aware of but one belt for this regardless of where you buy it. I believe it's made by Falcon (sp).I don't know if it's a good or bad product. All I know is after 6000 miles of riding no wheelies no burnouts not speed shifting it broke. Left me and the wife on the side of the road and it took 5 days to get a belt because it was Friday. As far as all you arm chairs that have not done this mod you need to shut up the racket becaue you don't know what youre talking about. I know I now carry a spare belt just in case. Give it a rest just be prepared for the worst and pray it doesn't happen. It's not astock Harley belt and if it brakes you're going to wait to get it. Geez.....
Mike
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Well, i'm 1700 miles into my Redlodge Montana Beartooth rally trip. You guys really need to check this rally out. We did a 140 mile poker run on Friday and a 180 mile poker run over the 1100' Beartooth pass on Saturday! 10 foot snow banks in the pass wearing a Long sleeve shirt! Awesome riding though historic towns with Grizzly bear warning signs. Anyway, point being, no belt issues here. Even did a few burn outs. Hit 111 GPS this morning having a showdown with a BMW. It's possible a few may have got defective belts? The majority are not having issues. I'm 3000 miles in on this one, done countless wheelies and burnouts. Still going strong.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance
Steve, glad you're having a good time out that way, we'll be there in about 2 weeks.
HAVE to go to Whistler and Victoria first, then off to MT on to SD and back to UT and WA again.......sheesh.
Trailer is towing just fine, checked that belt again yesterday after the long haul up North. No adjustments needed, but, I looked for cuts, holes, etc.
Guess I'm just lucky riding down some of these gravel roads out here. Everything looks fine. Bike is running great, getting the same mileage as my buddy on his bone stock '09 96". He's solo, and I have the wife on the back.
Keep in touch, maybe our paths will cross this summer!
As usual, my disclaimer: JMHO :2vrolijk_21:
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I to am on my second belt with the 30 tooth pulley. I still love it. Carry a second spare belt? :huepfenlol2: good one!! nahhh Im going to chain drive over the winter with the stock IDS system. around 500.00.. love the lower gearing performance to much to give it , up especially if i go from 107 to 117 or 120 :)
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So Tim, whats involved with the chain conversion. Is it a kit or pieces and parts? I guess I feel like you. at 112/110 now and thinking about more power I should at least consider it!
Mike
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So Tim, whats involved with the chain conversion. Is it a kit or pieces and parts? I guess I feel like you. at 112/110 now and thinking about more power I should at least consider it!
Mike
Mike
I'm running around 130 tq on my SERK with this conversion for better than 15000 miles. No issues with the belt yet. I wouldn't worry about it. If you should get a bad belt I'd just replace it and move on.
JW
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Mike
I'm running around 130 tq on my SERK with this conversion for better than 15000 miles. No issues with the belt yet. I wouldn't worry about it. If you should get a bad belt I'd just replace it and move on.
JW
Jw thanks!
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Look up Dragos Bike Works. Chain drive isolation kit for harley isolated drive systems for 09 . 590.00 for std kit
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picture of rear sprocket with IDS
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I like the way Tim and others are looking at possible solutions. My belt failed with less than 3,000 easy miles, so I asked a friend who is a process engineer at a facility that manufactures various laminated products to check my drive belts. His responsibility is developing various laminating methods & the testing of the finshed product to supply the customer with documentation that the product is within spec. In other words, he knows his sh-t, plus he is a fantastic and talented mechanic. I won't go into details at the extent of his testing but it took him seconds to identify 'my' Falcon belt as having a poor bond. He compared both belts under a low powered scope and found that my Falcon belt has numerous tiny air bubbles and spaces that lacked the material required for a proper bond, plus he mentioned that the center strip inbetween the inner and outer as being substancially courser than the OEM. I could only supply 2 Gates (OEM) and the Falcon belt. It's possible I could have had one of a small batch of belts that slipped through quality control or it could be more serious than that. I do know the back of the OEM belt with the grooves that the Falcon lacked had other uses making it more suitable for its intended purpose but he was starting to get real technical on me. I have much more info on the test he performed but I was convinced that the OEM belt from a Sportster that Steve suggested was my solution for the 07's & 08's. So I had enough info for my needs. I installed the same belt that JW used, and I'm hoping for the same results.
Solutions may or may not be required, piece of mind tends to affect us in different ways. I do know if replacing a belt on our bikes was not so labor intensive like some other models are, we would just get a spare belt and move on to fixing something else. Due to it being very labor extensive, we tend to look for a better solution. Owning a CVO Harley has programed us to make improvements where needed. The use of a chain will certainly make installations much easier, however, I do remember the damage to my bikes when I had a chain break, so locating a belt that is up to the task is the way I would like to go if possible. I would prefer to go the simple route and just install an oversize rear sprocket and belt. I'm not aware of the availability of a wider rear sprocket but, I do know that Gates offers belts for our needs in wider sizes. Clearance may be an issue, but I think it is worth looking at. I think I'm OK with the belt but I have to say, it is another thing I tend to think about while being 2 to 3 hours away from home on a late Sunday evening especially when two up. (Paranoid - no doubt) (Solution - high probability)
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Thanks Ray great work. I knew I wasnt losing my mind. Maybe we will figure out a fix that will work.
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I have a 2011.5 with 12,000 miles on a Drag Specialties 139 tooth belt with no problems.
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I have a 2011.5 with 12,000 miles on a Drag Specialties 139 tooth belt with no problems.
The real question would be who manufactured the belt?
Mike
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The real question would be who manufactured the belt?
Mike
From their website:
Drag Specialties 1-1/8" Rear Drive Belt
* Carbon fiber reinforced
* Goodyear engineered Falcon SPC belts offer up to 33 percent more tensile strength than conventional aramid reinforced belts
* High temperature rubber compound offers excellent flex and long service life
* Fabric reinforced belt tooth surfaces improve wear resistance
* Durable material construction is designed to withstand belt- penetrating debris
8)
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From their website:
Drag Specialties 1-1/8" Rear Drive Belt
* Carbon fiber reinforced
* Goodyear engineered Falcon SPC belts offer up to 33 percent more tensile strength than conventional aramid reinforced belts
* High temperature rubber compound offers excellent flex and long service life
* Fabric reinforced belt tooth surfaces improve wear resistance
* Durable material construction is designed to withstand belt- penetrating debris
8)
Thanks Mike, that was the point I was trying to make. It appears that some folks here think that because they bought the belt from some XYZ store that its a different belt. But to my knowledge there is only one manufacture for this belt and its the one you listed! And its failure rate is unacceptable, but its the only one we have right now unless you want a chain.
Mike
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Thanks Mike, that was the point I was trying to make. It appears that some folks here think that because they bought the belt from some XYZ store that its a different belt. But to my knowledge there is only one manufacture for this belt and its the one you listed! And its failure rate is unacceptable, but its the only one we have right now unless you want a chain.
Mike
Not real sure about that, I know of quite a few people running that belt, and I'm on an extended trip on mine.
I have really "overloaded" my belt (along with the rest of the bike), and will see how things work out when I get back home in a month or so. I HAVE checked the belt once (at about 5000 miles) and it looks good.
We'll see how it lasts. :nixweiss:
8)
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BTW:
My power is about 100/100 and I'm pulling a 400 lb trailer, 2-up on this trip.
8)
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yep I understand, it might run for 40,000 miles. But there have been enough failures that I would be ..................! BTW I serviced my bike 200 miles prior to belt breakage and it looked great to me! Point is you don't know and your not going to get a warning. Mine just snapped in half. 99% of the old belt looks great, its just the 1% where there is no belt now thats bad.LOL
Mike
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I broke my Falcon SPT 139 tooth after 10,000 miles. What would it entail to switch the rear pulley to the one on the trike, and use the 1 1/8" trike belt?
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I broke my falcon 139 tooth after 10,000 miles. What would it entail to switch the rear pulley to the one on the trike, and use the 1 1/8" trike belt?
:confused5:
An interesting question for sure. Assuming your trans sprocket (30T), is a HD one you got from Harley that was originally for the Trike, you already have the wider sprocket needed there.
As to the rear wheel sprocket, I looked at the trike parts list on Ronnies site, and the (trike) rw pulley is 70T. So, assuming your rear pulley is really 68T like mine, right away you would have a lower ratio.............assuming the trike pulley will exchange and fit on your bikes rear wheel and that there are no "clearance" issues... :nixweiss:
70T divided by 33T would net you just about the exact same ratio.......So if you wanted to maintain pretty much the same thing as you had after going to the 30t trans sprocket, you would need to find a (wider) 33T trans pulley. :drink:
Keep us posted if you are able to get all this to work
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Thanks for your research! While I am very happy with the 30t/68t gearing, I don't think I want to take it any lower. A guy I work with has an '06 RK, and he has an 1 1/8 wide belt on it. Do you know the number of teeth on the rear sproket for that bike? ( and whether or not it would fit on my 2010 FLHTK?)
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The Gates Poly Chain belt seems to be the best choice. Here is a quote from the Motorcycle Parts website.
http://www.tejasthumpcycles.com/Part...Rear_Belts.htm
"Gates brand rear belts are the same drive belts used by the Harley Davidson Motor Company since 1980 because of the reliability."
I have ordered the PC-139-1 belt. I hope this one lasts longer than the Falcon SPT did.
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The Gates Poly Chain belt seems to be the best choice. Here is a quote from the Motorcycle Parts website.
http://www.tejasthumpcycles.com/Part...Rear_Belts.htm
"Gates brand rear belts are the same drive belts used by the Harley Davidson Motor Company since 1980 because of the reliability."
I have ordered the PC-139-1 belt. I hope this one lasts longer than the Falcon SPT did.
All I could find there was a 139 1-1/8 Gates .
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:nixweiss:
SBURT....Your friends '06 likely has a narrower rear tire on his than you do. The move back from 1 1/8 belts to the current 1" on models now is due (I think) to the wider tires the new models have. You have a 180 rear tire and could not use a 1/1/8" belt even if the pulley would handle it because of lack of clearance.
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Thanks for your research! While I am very happy with the 30t/68t gearing, I don't think I want to take it any lower. A guy I work with has an '06 RK, and he has an 1 1/8 wide belt on it. Do you know the number of teeth on the rear sproket for that bike? ( and whether or not it would fit on my 2010 FLHTK?)
In '08 they started putting the IDS on the rear sprocket, Isolated Drive System (I think that's what it stands for, it's been to long to remember).
This is a rubber set of cushions inside the hub to isolate the drive pulses from the motor. So even if it would clear your tire you would need the new style rear wheel, at least that's my guess.
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Thanks for the info guys. I hope the Gates 1" belt will work better than the Falcon.
My dealer got it from Mid USA.
It would be the Gates Poly Chain PC-139-1. Mid USA Part # 77560. The info is listed at the following site:
http://www.beltdrives.com/reardrbelt2.html
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I wonder about there pc belt disclaimer ?
*NOTE: 1" and 1-1/8" wide belts are designed for custom show only. They are not intended to be used in lieu of a 1-1/2" wide belt. Use of a 1" or 1-1/8" wide belt is at the user's discretion and no warranty claims are made or implied by the manufacturers of the belts, Belt Drives Ltd, or distributors of this belt.
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:confused5:
I agree that (disclaimer) is bothersome, but we never used 1 1/2" wide belts to start with did we?? I'm thinkin' they just wanna avoid any hassles with anyone breaking a belt. I just last week read an article where a guy had a 90's something model and over 100K miles and still on his orginal belt.
The only belt breaks I have witnessed are those azzholes that think it's cool to do burn outs against a wall and fry their rear tire and often wipe out the belt in the process.
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:confused5:
I agree that (disclaimer) is bothersome, but we never used 1 1/2" wide belts to start with did we?? I'm thinkin' they just wanna avoid any hassles with anyone breaking a belt. I just last week read an article where a guy had a 90's something model and over 100K miles and still on his orginal belt.
The only belt breaks I have witnessed are those azzholes that think it's cool to do burn outs against a wall and fry their rear tire and often wipe out the belt in the process.
Really, and you're an idiot with no input or reason to be in this discussion. If you bothered to read the entire thread you might figure out there is a real issue with this gear and the belt breaks. No wait... You wouldn't figure it out. This is not a 90 something 50 tq bike. 110 have got plenty of tq and the stock Harley belt works great. But the falco belt is causing the problem. I know bikes that have done this change and I ride one. And riding it the way you described is not the issue. The belt brakes, period!
Mike
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lets not make this personal
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Ok sorry for the comment, I'm off this list.
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:drink:
Well BigL.......if you have been perusing any of the other multiple threads regarding this gear swap, you would likely see some entries from me as I finally made the swap too. My 110 is not stock and puts out over 108 in both HP and Torque and so I'm invested myself in wanting answers to problems with these belts. I happen to get the Drag Specialitis belt and am not sure just what company manufactored the damn thing, but I'm hoping it doesn't break..............have a great day. :-\
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I'm only interested in a solution period. My opinion FWIW is limited but when having the Gates & Falcon checked from specialist in my area I'm 100% convinced that the Gates is a better quality belt. How much better is required to do the job I don't know. As mentioned like others I had my Falcon fail with less than 3000 easy miles, I was not doing burnout etc. In other words I was not asking my belt to do anything special. Why not work on a solution? I would think that a wider belt with a rear sprocket would do wonders as some push the performance envelope. Yeah there are many areas to improve on our bikes but since changing the belts is such a major PITA, and can quickly ruin a trip I for one prefer not to do it again unless I'm planning to replace it due to normal wear. Has anyone looked at www.Supermax.net for additional information. This can't be as complicated as this thread has made it out to be. Find the best quality belt, keep the proper tension, check for physical damage and if possible locate a system that will allow us to mount a slightly wider rear sprocket & belt for insurance. If parts are readably available this could be a real simple fix for those who are interested. We can certainly move this topic in a more positive solution mode, can't we?
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If it makes anyone feel better,
I recently returned home from a 3300 mile, 11 day trip to Red Lodge MT. On the way home I did 640 miles the first day, passing north to south through the
entire state of Wyoming on two lane roads in less than 6 hours running 90 MPH+ most of the time. My SPD Falcon 139T belt still looks perfect. I have over 7K on it,
numerous wheelies and burnout, (not the previously mentioned stationary Azzhole kind, rodeo style), no belt issues.
Here is the actual belt being tested before I left. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uRNDxHsaYc
Steve
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Makes me feel a little better...
I did the swap & love it! I also went with the Falcon belt from Drag, then I even went out a bought a spare belt just in case...another falcon...
I hope they hold up as well, if not I guess I'm down for a bit.
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Read every word and took notes! Not sure I know anything. :nixweiss: :huepfenlol2:
I do know this. My 2011 FLTRUSE has been in the shop for a week for some warranty issues. Picked it up today with "most" of the issues fixed. Dang check engine light will NOT light up upon key on. Yeah, sports fans, the kill switch is on. Oh well.
On to my only point related to this thread. And it will probably be obvious to the more seasoned among you.
During this week I've been riding my '01 FLTRSEI2. Now the engine is not stock, nor is the clutch. But it is, most decidedly NOT radical. What a pure joy it was riding that '01 this week. So tired of feeling like I'm slipping the clutch on the '11. Gutless 110 will not hardly move the bike. After riding the '01 it hit me like a ton of bricks that it's the gear ratios that are the problem.
I mean, the new bike is great. But I cannot stress enough how much more enjoyable and easy it (the 01) is to ride. And, I'm including "highway speeds". I have about 8500 on the new bike. 80,000 on the old one. Cannot frickin' wait to change to a 30T set up.
I really did learn a lot from this thread. PROPS TO MANY OF YOU. THANKS A LOT!!!
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B.A. you're gonna love it. I have 2 really good friends I ride with. 1 has the same bike as me, the other has an 08 streetglide (non CVO). After I did the 30T on mine I had our friend with the 08, ride the 32T (stock) SESG, then ride mine right after. He agreed the difference was night and day. My buddy with the other SESG will be making the upgrade as well when he gets back to work. Good luck keeping the front end down after the upgrade. LOL
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:cherry:
BA.......Prior to getting my '09 SE Ultra 110, my last bike was an '01 RK Classic with the 95 kit and some other goodies. I loved the final 3.37 gearing ratio and quickly noticed the gearing diff. on the new scoot.
The 30T swap out helps quite a bit to get the 900+ pig moving off the line..........Go for it. :drink:
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THANKS.
I've got to do this!
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If this is in the thread, I missed it.
Anyone consider a pulley from Baker Drivetrains? 30BD-56, for example.
It'a billet aluminum. 61% lighter. Very minor in terms of performance, I'm sure. But, why not?
Maybe y'all will tell me.
Comments?
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Got my '07 cuse2 back Tuesday with the 30-tooth sprocket and SE compensator upgrades. Those of you with later models who think your bike is geared a little tall, well if you never rode an '07 (and possibly an '08, unsure about those) you would be surprised just how tall they are especially for first gear take off.
This sprocket change makes a nice difference. I was chewing on whether to do a 30-t or a 31-t but sure glad I went with the 30-t. It is about a 6% improvement and makes the bike much more driveable. Taking a turn on city street in second is now no problem whereas before if traffic did not permit sufficient speed then I would have to slow down enough to take it in first gear - real pia for sure. Much better now. :2vrolijk_21:
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Got my '07 cuse2 back Tuesday with the 30-tooth sprocket and SE compensator upgrades. Those of you with later models who think your bike is geared a little tall, well if you never rode an '07 (and possibly an '08, unsure about those) you would be surprised just how tall they are especially for first gear take off.
This sprocket change makes a nice difference. I was chewing on whether to do a 30-t or a 31-t but sure glad I went with the 30-t. It is about a 6% improvement and makes the bike much more driveable. Taking a turn on city street in second is now no problem whereas before if traffic did not permit sufficient speed then I would have to slow down enough to take it in first gear - real pia for sure. Much better now. :2vrolijk_21:
The 08's were just as bad. Glad I made the change on the SERK4. Hasn't been as much of an issue with the 11 SESG. Gearing is better.
JW
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I would'nt go with the aluminum one for daily street driving, Those are mostly for racing as per baker .
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I would'nt go with the aluminum one for daily street driving, Those are mostly for racing as per baker .
I used the 30-t from the moco that they put on the trike. Less expensive than the aftermarket ones and while I saw the aluminum version I did not think it would be of benefit.
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Congrats on the 30t Jerry! I was thinking about doing this with mine but after reading this thread I'm not sure with the belt issues that some have had. Did you use your stock belt? I always thought 1st gear on mine was too tall especially 2 up.
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Congrats on the 30t Jerry! I was thinking about doing this with mine but after reading this thread I'm not sure with the belt issues that some have had. Did you use your stock belt? I always thought 1st gear on mine was too tall especially 2 up.
No, JR, had to change the belt from 137-tooth to 136-tooth. Used a Harley belt p/n 40371-07. But help me out here. You bike is an '05 model, correct? Any don't you still have the oem 5-speed tranny? If so you are already where I am getting to by changing my drive sprocket.
If your tranny and drive train is still stock then I don't think you would want to lower yours any. It would be way too busy in fifth gear at highway speed.
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Thanks Jerry! :2vrolijk_21:
If I keep my Nana I was thinking about going with the 6 speed. I noticed when it's just me riding, taking off isn't that bad. But if I'm 2 up or loaded down it seems like I'm slipping the clutch taking off. Especially when it's hot outside. Last service they checked clutch and said it was OK. He went ahead and changed oil in it and bleed it out. It's a little better, but just thought this might help it out. :nixweiss:
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JR, on our bikes it's easier to just change the primary ratio rather than mess with the trans sprocket and drive belt. Basically you just change the compensator sprocket and the clutch sprocket to the ratio used on the early Twin Cam's, which changes the overall gearing in fifth from 3.15:1 to 3.37:1. The parts are readily available from Harley as well as the aftermarket, and it's a pretty common modification that most shops are very familiar with.
Jerry
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JR, on our bikes it's easier to just change the primary ratio rather than mess with the trans sprocket and drive belt. Basically you just change the compensator sprocket and the clutch sprocket to the ratio used on the early Twin Cam's, which changes the overall gearing in fifth from 3.15:1 to 3.37:1. The parts are readily available from Harley as well as the aftermarket, and it's a pretty common modification that most shops are very familiar with.
Jerry
Thanks Jerry! :2vrolijk_21:
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JR, on our bikes it's easier to just change the primary ratio rather than mess with the trans sprocket and drive belt. Basically you just change the compensator sprocket and the clutch sprocket to the ratio used on the early Twin Cam's, which changes the overall gearing in fifth from 3.15:1 to 3.37:1. The parts are readily available from Harley as well as the aftermarket, and it's a pretty common modification that most shops are very familiar with.
Jerry
Jerry, EVO Industries has a new revised machined steel clutch ring gear and 49t sprocket that can be attached to the original clutch basket or you can get their complete billet clutch basket with all the new sprocket/gear combo.
The kit is a new primary chain and ring gear and 49t sprocket with gaskets. The kit $515.00. The earlier ones were machined from aluminum and they were $324.00 for the kit.
This kit gives about a 7% reduction, just a half percent or so more than the 30t belt front sprocket. I have a 30t and Falcon belt, but still might lean towards the primary change out instead.
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Wasn't there an issue with reprogramming the speedo with this change, as opposed to the 30T?
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Anyone know the correction numbers to put in a thundermax ign, to correct the speedo for the gearing change ?
taking two from the trans sprocket would be like adding four to the wheel sprocket, T=max has a correction factor for this set up in there software, would this get me close ?
TIA
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Jerry, EVO Industries has a new revised machined steel clutch ring gear and 49t sprocket that can be attached to the original clutch basket or you can get their complete billet clutch basket with all the new sprocket/gear combo.
The kit is a new primary chain and ring gear and 49t sprocket with gaskets. The kit $515.00. The earlier ones were machined from aluminum and they were $324.00 for the kit.
This kit gives about a 7% reduction, just a half percent or so more than the 30t belt front sprocket. I have a 30t and Falcon belt, but still might lean towards the primary change out instead.
I had one of those Evo ind kits come through my shop on a 103 LTD that I dynoed. It made a noticeable kind of whirring noise from the primary.
I assume the chain going around the larger clutch hub sprocket must hit the tensioner at a different angle. I'm not saying it was going to fly apart, but a long term
evaluation of this new noise might be of interest. I was really considering this route until I heard this one.
Steve
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:cherry:
A few yrs ago, right after I installed an M-6 tensioner on my R. King, it too made a "whirring" sound, but that noise went away after a couple of thousand miles or so.
My guess it was the chain against the nylon shoe making that noise until it finally wore itself down a little. I never had any follow on problems with it.
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So my machine is in the shop now for the 30t and belt swap. I am tired of being passed up by my buddy on his 2011 FLHX with a 103, TW55 cams , tune, and V&H power duals. Here are my questions for anyone who may know the answers.
1. Can someone with this same mod confirm that I will only notice a PULL / TORQUE difference from a dead stop or low RPM's or will I get it throughout the entire power-band through each gear ? I have been told that my bike will NOT pull any better from roll on's and that doesn't seem to make sense.
2. Does anyone know (possibly Steve if you read this) what number I should use for the speedo offset ?? I have the TTS and would like to do the adjustment once rather than multiple times.
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So my machine is in the shop now for the 30t and belt swap. I am tired of being passed up by my buddy on his 2011 FLHX with a 103, TW55 cams , tune, and V&H power duals. Here are my questions for anyone who may know the answers.
1. Can someone with this same mod confirm that I will only notice a PULL / TORQUE difference from a dead stop or low RPM's or will I get it throughout the entire power-band through each gear ? I have been told that my bike will NOT pull any better from roll on's and that doesn't seem to make sense.
2. Does anyone know (possibly Steve if you read this) what number I should use for the speedo offset ?? I have the TTS and would like to do the adjustment once rather than multiple times.
You need to hang out with a more knowledgeable crowd. A final drive gear ratio change will be effective at all engine speeds and in all transmission gears, not just from a dead stop, and will definitely be noticeable in roll on performance and passing maneuvers. You will likely find what used to require a downshift will now just take a twist of the wrist.
Jerry
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You need to hang out with a more knowledgeable crowd. A final drive gear ratio change will be effective at all engine speeds and in all transmission gears, not just from a dead stop, and will definitely be noticeable in roll on performance and passing maneuvers. You will likely find what used to require a downshift will now just take a twist of the wrist.
Jerry
Thanks Jerry, that's what I thought and makes sense.
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2. Does anyone know (possibly Steve if you read this) what number I should use for the speedo offset ?? I have the TTS and would like to do the adjustment once rather than multiple times.
If you've got the TTS you should just be able to use that for the speedo correction, I watched my dyno guy do it, there is a screeen where you just input your tire & wheels size & if I remember right the number of teeth on the pulleys. I know there was a number posted in this thread for 2011 CVO street glides & I tried that number & it didn't work on mine. After a couple tries up & down from the suggested number with no luck we just entered the tire size & pulleys and it ended up dead on at 60. Gets a little off any faster.
I guess I'm just trying to say go with the facts from your bike in the TTS & you should be good, tho I've never hooked it up personally, I'm too afraid to screw something up...
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You need to hang out with a more knowledgeable crowd.
Jerry
Jerry, your killing me. Lol
Yes, will pull harder everywhere. Add 200 points to your speed calc number to get started.
Steve
Fullsac Performance
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i have one and its yes also, But! now you need cams and and motor work he did to his. He still may pass you!! But you will be quicker starting
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Just in the middle of this conversion now really didn't want to get into it now but had no choice as my stock belt is missing 6 or so cogs damn it ah well I am sure it will be worth my while in the end does anyone no of a way to calibrate the speedo without having to purchase a seperate tuner as I only have the super tuner can the dealer do this calibration
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Just in the middle of this conversion now really didn't want to get into it now but had no choice as my stock belt is missing 6 or so cogs damn it ah well I am sure it will be worth my while in the end does anyone no of a way to calibrate the speedo without having to purchase a seperate tuner as I only have the super tuner can the dealer do this calibration
Go for a ride and check your speedo against a good GPS, and I bet you won't be too far off "true" MPH.
8)
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Guys.. Question. For those of you that have had the belt break, did the belt snap or did the teeth come off ?? Mine came apart this weekend. Drag Specialties belt, maybe 5k miles since conversion. It stripped all the teeth off the belt. Now i was pulling a hole shot leaving a stop light.. but that is normal riding for me and i have no problems up to this point. Just wondering if you guys had the same breaking issue as I , or did the belt snap ?
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All that I have heard the belt has snapped. I thinkk Steve stripped an oil soaked belt, but that is the only I can recall.
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Mine snapped!
BigLew
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My Falcon belt had numerous teeth ripped off and it just basically de-laminated. After I had it inspected at a lab that does cross sections for the lamination process of various materials his conclusion while comparing the OEM and what was left of the Falcon was interpreted as a poor lamination process such as glue lines with air bubbles throughout the belt. I can't say they are all built like the one I had. If you can put them side by side you will definitely notice the difference in construction, again I can't say one is beater constructed than another but you won't find another Falcon or non Gates belt on my bike. The aftermarket belt breakage has cause quite a bit of discussion and we all have to make choices. What I get out of all the info that Steve and others have put into a number of post is to try to make the OEM belt fit and use the Tri-Glide pulley although the pulley has never been identified as a component that has caused any issues.
Overall the 30T sprocket made a noticeable improvement, although I'm once again disappointed that I had to do this to make the bike run the way it should. Speaking for myself I'm disappointed in the amount of money I have put into this bike. I should have stayed within my personal finances and changed brands rather than to rebuild this one. A very costly mistake on my part and one not to be repeated. Good Luck on your modification.
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This thread has been viewed 13260 times :'( Wonder what the record is for views on this site..... :drink:
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This site does nothing more than add to my wallets diet plan :'( I mainly do 1 up riding but find myself with the younger Soldiers who are on sportbikes...they can't believe the "old man" stays up with and ahead of most. This sounds just like what the doctor ordered to keep from getting pulled halfway through and the top of second. :2vrolijk_21:
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What I get out of all the info that Steve and others have put into a number of post is to try to make the OEM belt fit and use the Tri-Glide pulley although the pulley has never been identified as a component that has caused any issues.
I am running the Tri Glide pulley on mine................
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:drink:
I'm running the tri glide sprocket also, there are no problems with it. It is wider than necessary cause the tri-glide uses a wider belt.........but it works just fine with the 1" belt.
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well finaly finnished my30t conversion couldnt be happier with it except for the fact that I am now terrified of breaking a belt in the middle of tim buck 2 just drives me nuts that with this kinda demand for this belt that gates wouldnt step up and sell a belt for us unreal
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I'm running a 82T with a 1/2" leather belt with a small cowgirl silver buckle. :lolk: :kiss2: :whip: :gorgeous: :elvis:
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My sprocket is up for sale just sick and tired of down time and the marks that the belt leaves on my saddlebags. I guess if the point of putting this thing on was to help make my bike more mangeable in parkinglots and for the added torque it has done that when the bike is in running order.This sprocket has cost me almost $2600 dollars not including the 2mpg it sucked away.IMO if u really want that 30tooth then do the swingarm mod but you would never catch me doing that to my bike no way ever. 2011 cvo sg 7000miles
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Might be that the smaller diameter of the front pulley is working the belt more causing it to delaminate. Why not put a bigger rear pulley on instead (no need to touch the motor/gearbox) as well to get the required gearing and keep the standard belt? The rear tooth change number would have to be greater to have the same effect (roughly twice). Is there a two tooth larger rear pulley for your bikes and a one tooth smaller front, nearly the same ratio change as a 30T and keep the standard belt, as long as the adjustment allows it.
If it doesn't, the adjustment must be small or file/machine the hole another 4mm.
This post is sooooooo long!
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Added a bit more, not sure of the cost of pulleys but it might be cheaper just replacing the pulleys front and back than a pulley and a belt. Will be putting mine on the jack on the weekend to have a look, 2008 softail, don't like the standard gearing either. The 1 in belt is supposed to be stronger than the older wider OEM belt I read somewhere but not sure where.
To be truthful I am getting tired of fixing/replacing things that the bike should have been made with from new, it's an expensive bike to buy and expensive to sort out its problems. Expensive, slow, heavy, poor handling and brakes just to start with and rusts easily as well, but thats another story.
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My sprocket is up for sale just sick and tired of down time and the marks that the belt leaves on my saddlebags. I guess if the point of putting this thing on was to help make my bike more mangeable in parkinglots and for the added torque it has done that when the bike is in running order.This sprocket has cost me almost $2600 dollars not including the 2mpg it sucked away.IMO if u really want that 30tooth then do the swingarm mod but you would never catch me doing that to my bike no way ever. 2011 cvo sg 7000miles
2600.00? Wow. How many aftermarket belts did you break? ..
Steve
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The other side of this coin...
I have almost 30K on my 30 tooth and Falcon belt...
I ride moderately hard... Not a burnout kinda guy... But second gear wheelies... Different story.
Mine has taken the abuse.
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FULLSAC,
Preparing to tear apart my primary and replace compensator, bearing, chain tensioner and inner primary. Will convert to 30T pulley and Sportster belt. In the past you have mentioned the need for a 2 3/4" deep socket for dis assembly. What size socket?
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2 1/4 " socket and you will have to modify it so it is deep enough. I just did mine and socket cost 60 bucks. HD gets 130 for their tool.
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Thnx ut1391h.
Did you start out with a 3/4" drive bearing locknut type socket, or a more conventional socket?
http://www.amazon.com/SOC-2-1-LCKNT-6PT-SATIN/dp/B00814NOXW/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1360220765&sr=1-2&keywords=otc+1920 (http://www.amazon.com/SOC-2-1-LCKNT-6PT-SATIN/dp/B00814NOXW/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1360220765&sr=1-2&keywords=otc+1920)
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resqdoc,
I have made 2 (can't remember the sizes off the top of my head), one for my 2K RG and one for my 2011 SG. I did the same for both, started with a socket I had laying around from a 4wd front end (similar to the link you posted). Then I purchased a socket from Sears, I cut the ends off both and welded them together to make a deep socket. Mine were both 1/2" drive, which is good so it went right on my 1/2" impact. On the 2011 I cut a piece of 1" thick wood with a hole saw, the first cut was the ID of the socket, so it would forcefully go into the socket. The second cut was the OD of the shaft. I put the chunk of wood in the back socket before I welded the two of them together, this made a support for the shaft so the socket didn't get off center. Hope that all makes sense, I am better at wrenching than typing :-\ At some point you have to look at the cost of a store bought tool $120ish, vs. all the work and buying the sockets.
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I don't like the look of the Amazon socket. I saw a 3/4 drive set the other day for 35 - 40 bucks and you could use two of the sockets from the set to make your tool. A forged socket will work best as the nut with red Loctite is some kind of tight and to re-tighten after pulley installation will take a 3' cheater pipe.
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Just the feedback I was looking for. I find the right tool. Thanks again.
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:cherry:
A few yrs ago, I needed an odd-size large socket to pull the front hubs from my 4WD Toyota truck. I went to Agri-Supply and they have an assortment of foreign made sockets that work OK for things like this. Mine was a 3/4 drive as I recall. I think they have catalog ordering too.
Check it out.
http://www.agrisupply.com/Category.aspx?ss=&c=4700099&sb=&pgnum=1&pgsize=all&filter=
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Here is the correct socket.
http://www.georges-garage.com/trans_06_up.htm
SG
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Just recieved the Georges-Garage socket (and other stuff too). Wow, what a damn fine tool. Very well built.
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I got my Primary torn down without any issues. I had ordered an Andrew's 31T pulley. When I went to install it, it is the wrong size. The internal (splined) diameter of my stock pulley is 1.96". The Andrews pulley is 1.72". Anyone else run into this?
I'm going to return it and have decided to go ahead and go the Triglide 30T pulley and 136T Sportster belt route. I'll probably be happier in the mountains where I ride anyway.
Any reason to suspect the Triglide pulley won't fit?
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I got my Primary torn down without any issues. I had ordered an Andrew's 31T pulley. When I went to install it, it is the wrong size. The internal (splined) diameter of my stock pulley is 1.96". The Andrews pulley is 1.72". Anyone else run into this?
I'm going to return it and have decided to go ahead and go the Triglide 30T pulley and 136T Sportster belt route. I'll probably be happier in the mountains where I ride anyway.
Any reason to suspect the Triglide pulley won't fit?
What year is your bike?
Steve
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2007 Road King 6 speed 110"
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2007 Road King 6 speed 110"
You definitely want to go 30T on that one. Use the Tri Glide, no issues.
SG
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Hey can anyone tell me if the comp. nut is right or left handed threads. My book says the clutch basket is left handed threads and they are right handed. I am changing out my tran. sprocket and the comp. nut seemed really tight. So I wanted to make sure the manual was not wrong with that one too. Thanks sprinkman
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You didn't specify what year.
I just did mine
The compensator nut (bolt actually) is normal Right handed.
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You definitely want to go 30T on that one. Use the Tri Glide, no issues.
SG
I agree with Steve. I put the 30T on my 2007 cuse2. The 07s and 08s are geared so verrrrrrry high that the 31T will not be enough imo. The 30T put me right where I want to be rpm/torque wise when cruising and when at highway speed. It made a TREMENDOUS positive difference. I simply don't know how I managed to ride it for five years and 70k+ miles with the stock gearing. What a great improvement.
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Wow, just wow. Much Better.
SE Compensator, 30T pulley, SE diaphragm spring. Better than new. Ridability MUCH improved. Zero "clunk" going into first gear. :jalapeno: :pineapple: :pepper:
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I seem to recall reading on other forums that most of the belt breaking issues have been from Folks using non-HD 30T pulleys (Baker, Andrews, etc.).
Has anyone broke a belt when using a HD 30T pulley?
Thanks
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I did the 30T pulley mod on my 2007 FXSTC (using a HD pulley & belt). I don't know what my final drive ratio is now, but I like it.
I would like to do the same type mod on my 2011 Street Glide.
What size pulley (30T or 31T) will give the 2011 Street Glide the same final drive ratio as the 30T pulley did for my 2007 FXSTC?
Thanks
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The 07-08's had higher gearing andseemto benefit most from 30t. In 09 the rear belt pulley is two teeth different that I would think 31t would be closer to 07 with 30t. someone else might know better :nixweiss:
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:cherry:
Hey Doc.....Go to this site.
http://www.shopronniesharleydavidson.com/OEMpartfinder.htm
Then click on the OEM Harley Parts and then click motorcycle.
That should take you to a heading that allows you to pick your year and then model.
From there you can select the parts category you want and then get to the rear sprocket which will identify the number of teeth. Then you can compare ratios and do the necessary math. :drink:
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Does HD even make a 31T pulley?
Are they only offered from Andrews & Baker?
Thanks
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:confused5:
Not sure about the 31 tooth gear and whether Harley makes one. I ordered my 30T from a Harley Triglide. That sprocket is slightly wider than what a Tour model needs, but it serves the purpose for getting a 30T trans sprocket from Harley.
I'm thinking the gearing on your '11 tour model is very likely the same as what mine was on my '09 SE Ultra. If that is true, I'm remaining in the camp that says the 31T is insufficient to make enough change to matter.
My objective was to get some lower gearing to get the fat pig moving from a dead stop. I was after a low gear start up that was similar to my 2001 RK Classic which as I recall had a final of 3.37:1.
I care less about the argument of the rpms at 85-90 MPH cause I'm not running up there very often. Thus, to me the 31T is a waste of time considering my end results expectations.
Again, seeing as you were happy with your older bikes gearing, you need to do the "math" given whatever gearing it had and then compare it with (likely a heavier bike) and what you want to get out of it. :nixweiss:
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:confused5:
Not sure about the 31 tooth gear and whether Harley makes one. I ordered my 30T from a Harley Triglide. That sprocket is slightly wider than what a Tour model needs, but it serves the purpose for getting a 30T trans sprocket from Harley.
I'm thinking the gearing on your '11 tour model is very likely the same as what mine was on my '09 SE Ultra. If that is true, I'm remaining in the camp that says the 31T is insufficient to make enough change to matter.
My objective was to get some lower gearing to get the fat pig moving from a dead stop. I was after a low gear start up that was similar to my 2001 RK Classic which as I recall had a final of 3.37:1.
I care less about the argument of the rpms at 85-90 MPH cause I'm not running up there very often. Thus, to me the 31T is a waste of time considering my end results expectations.
Again, seeing as you were happy with your older bikes gearing, you need to do the "math" given whatever gearing it had and then compare it with (likely a heavier bike) and what you want to get out of it. :nixweiss:
Agreed.
Although I haven't done the 'math', I think that a 31T will give my 2011 Street Glide the same final gear ratio that the 30T gave my 2007 Softail Custom. Can anyone comment on this?
Also, does HD even make a 139T, 1" wide belt? I think this is what I would need if going to a 31T pulley (isn't is?).
Thanks, once more.
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bump
So is everyone changing to the 30 or the 31 on the 11-12 bikes?
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Is there a need to switch for 11's? I had issues with 11st being too tall in my 2010, but haven't had any issues with my 11...
Supershooter
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I've put close to 50,000 miles on my 08 with the 30 tooth conversion. I broke the Falcon belt at 3000 miles, then I found an OEM length that would fit, so far it's holding up fine. I have a S&S 124 and I'm not exactly easy on it. I only get on it once it's moving, if I was inclined to do many burn outs I would just go the chain & sprocket route.
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Do the math. Divide the clutch hub teeth by the motor sprocket.
Ex. 36÷25= 1.44
Divide the rear wheel pulley the trans.
Ex 65÷30= 2.166
Multiply 2.166 × 1.44= 3.119 5th
If you have a Over Drive gearset .86 or .89
Multiply 3.119 × .86= 2.75 6th gear final ratio.
This is the gearing on my Bike
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I did the 30T pulley mod on my 2007 FXSTC (using a HD pulley & belt). I don't know what my final drive ratio is now, but I like it.
I would like to do the same type mod on my 2011 Street Glide.
What size pulley (30T or 31T) will give the 2011 Street Glide the same final drive ratio as the 30T pulley did for my 2007 FXSTC?
Thanks
As I said the 07's and 08's had higher gearing as in the rear belt sprocket is different on the 09's and up. So the 07's and 08's do better with the 30t. So the 09's and newer IMO would be roughly same with 31t, however some have done the 30t on the newer bikes so would be best to talk to one of them to get a fair assessment. Good luck with your decision.
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As I said the 07's and 08's had higher gearing as in the rear belt sprocket is different on the 09's and up. So the 07's and 08's do better with the 30t. So the 09's and newer IMO would be roughly same with 31t, however some have done the 30t on the newer bikes so would be best to talk to one of them to get a fair assessment. Good luck with your decision.
That's what I was questioning too. I know the 07-08's need the 30 tooth. I was wondering if 30 tooth was down too far for the 09 and up? I still need to run some interstate on trips.
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I have an '09 SERG and it's always been very sluggish off the line with more clutch slipping than I prefer to have.
I see that the '07 & '08 FL's have 34-46 primary with 32-66 final drive.
The '09 and newer I believe have the same 34-46 primary, but 32-68 final drive.
Even with my slightly lower final drive gearing, the 32t was too high for my mainly 2-up riding.
I swapped out to the 30t last summer and have had great luck with it. I did the rear swingarm mod with the welded gussets and the slot ground out an additional .200" which allow the use of the stock belt.
This swap has NOT hurt my mileage and has made my bike with just a set of Fullsac 2.5" baffles and their TTS canned map run SO much better. My highway rpms have only increase about 300 rpms at any given speed, so that's a trade off that I was willing to make.
I still think that the Baker DD7 would have a better 1st gear and could then utilize the stock gearing a lot better, but for what my mod cost me, it was not even an option to do the DD7.
Hope this helps some of you guys with newer FL's. You will not regret doing the 30t...
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I did the 30T mod on my Ultra (2010 CVO) and man, did it make a difference! The bike already ran great with a well modded 113 but the 30T really was noticeable.
I modded the swing arm to allow a little more adjustment room and retained the stock belt.
It is a mod I highly recommend.
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Hey guys, bringing this back from the dead because I need some help. I modified my swing arm by grinding a little more room so the axle could slide back and I could keep my stock belt (2011 FLTRX/RG) When I put everything back together, I used some 1/4" shims. Initially they hold in place while I apply pressure, however when I get to around 50-60lbs of torque the right shim falls out. I have tried several different times to make it stay but no matter what I do, when the axle nut gets torque the axle moves just enough so the shim falls out. Anyone have any suggestions or had the same problem? I have to be missing something. Thanks..
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Try welding the shim in.
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Yes, they have to be welded behind the original axle cam adjustment blocks on the swingarm.
If you didn't weld them in, I can only assume you did not add any gussets on the bottom and back of the swingarm slot. Or you would have welded in the .25" bar stocks. With grinding out almost .25" of axle housing, you're getting kind of thin. I also had to grind out the shock mount to allow the axle cams to clear. Without the added reinforcements to the outside of the slot, the shock load could become an issue and crack the axle slot housing.
Just think it's a big chance without the gussets.
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::)
Here is a shot of the finished product.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/moscooter/arm_zpsb46d94dc.jpg) (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/moscooter/media/arm_zpsb46d94dc.jpg.html)
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Thanks for the reply guys. You are correct, I did not weld the shims in. I did the same mod (with shims) on my VROD when I dropped to a 26 tooth pulley from a 28 and never welded the shims in.
With that said, even if I welded the shims in what bothers me is that the tire/axle will not be even if one of them is touching the 1/4" shim and the other one is not. When finally torqued there is about 1/8" of space between the axle cam and shim if I was to guess. Eyeballing the tire (fender is off, bike is torn down) it looks fine.
I was thinking that when I was grinding on the slots that maybe I had taken a little more out of the right side than the left but even if I did that shouldn't matter because with the stock set up there is room behind the axle so you can tighten the belt. So, unless I am thinking wrong, then it shouldn't matter if they were to be a little off.
I have around 35k miles on the bike and I wonder if the axle and cam is worn out of spec. Not sure what else to check. I certainly do not want the bike to track sideways nor do I want to eat up the belt.
Dan, I haven't welded the gussets in place yet because I still working on this issue. Once that is fixed I can move forward. Regardless, my welds will not turn out as nice as the ones in your picture.
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Look at it this way, the original cam blocks on the swingarm, staggered or even, they are what they are.
If you add .25" square stock to each one, then they are the same as you had before, but only now .25" further to the rear.
I'm not sure what the .125" is all about. When I had my .25" bar stock welded into place, my cams were touching both sides and not doing this before, I guess it came out okay. I can go down the road sitting normally and take my hands off and I can steer the bike or go straight without seemingly leaning too far in either direction and sitting quite straight up for staying down the center of the lane.
I would weld in the gussets AND the bar stock and then worry about any side to side differences. But at least at that point the cams are identical albeit .25" further to the rear.
Yes, the slot length is not an issue as long as you don't bottom out in the slot prior to being at the correct belt tension.
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Since this thread has been brought back up, I have a question for those who have done the 30T.
Is it *just me* or, has anyone else broken a belt or two since the 30T?
I used the factory HD TriGlide pulley and factory stock belt(s) on a 2010CUSE5
I don't know if there's actually a causal *link* or just coincidental, but I've broken enough belts that I eventually went to chain(!) but then, I ride the big beast HARD, and it's a bit modified. Wheelies, yes, racing, yes, burnouts, Never.
Probably not actually related to the 30T, but I am curious if anyone has had the issue.
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I have read of many people breaking belts after this mod on other forums. I was looking to do this as well but after reading about belts breaking I choose to do it in the primary using the 49 tooth clutch basket assembly form Evolution Industries. It works OK but is has its drawbacks too. There is also one that changes the front sprocket in the primary. Game Changer I believe its called.
I'm sure others have not broken any belts, but if it could break it would surely break on me. lol :-\
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With all the gee-gaws and doo-dads made for HDs you'd think someone in the aftermarket would just make a 70 tooth cush-drive rear pulley for these. They make 68s so they can do it.
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Most of the belt breaking on the 30T sprocket change early on was from aftermarket belts, like the Falcon belt. I actually have a new Falcon belt in the box from Drag Specialties and held off doing the sprocket change for a couple years. I finally bit the bullet and did the swingarm mod and used the original HD belt.
From others having the 30T mod and retaining the original HD belts, I've not heard of any complaints about excessive belt breakage.
Being 30T or 32T, the belt for all practical purposes is wrapped about the same for sprocket tooth to belt tooth contact. There is of course about an 8% increase in lowered gear ratio, but so far on mine I've not had any belt stretch or any indication of belt wear. I would feel better if we still had the 1.5" wide belts instead of the 1" wide belt, but that's the sacrifice for a wider rear tire.
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Yes I wish the 1-1/2" Heavy Sidecar belt would fit these!
I learned to avoid aftermarket belts a good longtime ago with an 88" RK. I've only run HD belts and HD pulley on this bike. After seven(!) belts I went chain for sanity's sake. I posted a huge detailed thread over on that technical site.
I really did like the 30T for what it did for the ratio; no doubt most folks don't have any issue. I do tend to push the bike pretty hard.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk have no issues.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I posted a huge detailed thread over on that technical site.
I thought this was the technical site.
What site and do you have a link? Just would like to copy the information.
Thanks.
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:(
If any of you take note of the response a few posts above that is mine..............from (Photo Bucket), it seems that after several years of free imaging/posting to forums that many of us have done...........is now stopped dead. I've googled the above message and several folks indicate that (PB) wants around $400/yr for the continued ability to post stuff to another site. :nixweiss:
I have no intentions to maintain my account with them if I am now obligated to pay that kinda sum to post my own pics. :nervous:
Anybody aware of alternative sources to enable continued displaying of your pics without this kind of "fee" attached. >:(
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I thought this was the technical site.
What site and do you have a link? Just would like to copy the information.
Thanks.
Not sure if dire=ct linking another forum is *allowed* but here ya go, and my name there is "masstch"
http://www.harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=93994.msg1086565#msg1086565 (http://www.harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=93994.msg1086565#msg1086565)
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:(
If any of you take note of the response a few posts above that is mine..............from (Photo Bucket), it seems that after several years of free imaging/posting to forums that many of us have done...........is now stopped dead. I've googled the above message and several folks indicate that (PB) wants around $400/yr for the continued ability to post stuff to another site. :nixweiss:
I have no intentions to maintain my account with them if I am now obligated to pay that kinda sum to post my own pics. :nervous:
Anybody aware of alternative sources to enable continued displaying of your pics without this kind of "fee" attached. >:(
I have been using Picture Trail for about 14 years I believe. It started out to be free for a minimum amount of pictures and space, but I had to upgrade and now pay $19.95 for 1500 pictures and or 100mb of space. It's worked great for me and easy to use WITHOUT any ads on the albums.
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:cherry:
Thanks for that info, about $20/yr would seem reasonable. Now if I could just get all my files from P. Bucket switched over, I would be in business.